Silent and Failsafe Overflow System

[Charley Diesing]

I'm doing a 20 L with Bean animals overflow design. And I was wondering if anyone knows the right dimensions and size of bulk head etc. If anyone could put me in the right direct, I would greatly appreciate it.

Thanks,


charley

 

[Kawi9_cf]

Question,

I have a 27 gallon Marineland Cube tank and would like to set up the Bean Animal overflow. The Dimensions are 27 Cube Glass Aquarium: 20"W x 18"D x 20"H and here is what the tank looks like http://www.petsmart.com/product/zoom/index.jsp?productId=4449731

My question 1. I want an external overflow box as I do not want to drill into the glass
..how well do the external overflows work?

2. I was thinking of either using 1/2" or 3/4" pvc pipes w/ dual returns w/ an Aqua Runner 2500 return pump (roughly 650 gph), or is there a better pipe size?


Will my idea work? After seeing others use this and how clean looking it is I want to give this a shot..plus with the equipment out of plain site it makes everything look a lot better. Does anyone have pictures of a tank my size that use this overflow style??

External does not mean you dont have to drill the tank. You have to drill the tank if you are doing a bean animal overflow in any format. Many lfs or glass shops will drill the tank for you if you are not comfortable doing so. I would think your going to need at least 1" pipe if not bigger for the open channel.

 

[makutaku]

Help choosing diameter of hole

Help choosing diameter of hole

This is for a 125G rimless tank that I would like to place 3" or less from wall for aesthetics reasons. Target flow is 1200 gph.

Because I would like to have a clean unpainted background, my BeanAnimal overflow will be implemented in the following manner:

• Both Full Siphon & Open Channel standpipes will be located in a HOB overflow. An Eshopps PF-1200 with u-tube and two 1" drains. This will be on the left side glass, in corner of room.
• The Emergency Standpipe will be drilled in the actual tank, preventing flood in case the u-tube siphon is lost.

Regarding the size and location of the hole for emergency standpipe, my options at the moment are:

1. Drill one 1" hole at the back glass, but not sure if it 1" will handle flow in case of u-tube failure.
2. Drill one 1.5" hole at the left side glass. This would allow tank to be closer to wall, but it will limit future tank relocation.
3. Drill two 1" hole at the back glass. Better than drilling one 1.5" on the back since 1" doesn't require that much space, but still it's one extra hole.

I am close to ordering the tank, and it will come drilled. I just need to choose the best option. Can any of you guys help ? Will I be fine with option 1 ?

 

[deaclauderdale]

I've finally made it through the entre thread (took 4 days)!

First let me add how appreciative I am of not just your design, but your continued participation in the discussion Mr. BeanAnimal, I am alos grateful to those who have used and 'mastered' the implementation of the system and keep this discussion.

One quick questions as I have not seen or either skipped over this detail:

Should I only use PVC with the sanitation tee's, or can I use the black ABS version that HomeDepot readily carries?

And is it ok to use threaded bulkheads, or is it more of a preference or what you have on hand issue?

Thank you in advance for any comments/help I may get!

 

[biecacka]

Could I run my reactors/skimmer from one of these drains?
Pros-cons
Thanks
Corey

 

[Kawi9_cf]

This is for a 125G rimless tank that I would like to place 3" or less from wall for aesthetics reasons. Target flow is 1200 gph.

Because I would like to have a clean unpainted background, my BeanAnimal overflow will be implemented in the following manner:

• Both Full Siphon & Open Channel standpipes will be located in a HOB overflow. An Eshopps PF-1200 with u-tube and two 1" drains. This will be on the left side glass, in corner of room.
• The Emergency Standpipe will be drilled in the actual tank, preventing flood in case the u-tube siphon is lost.

Regarding the size and location of the hole for emergency standpipe, my options at the moment are:

1. Drill one 1" hole at the back glass, but not sure if it 1" will handle flow in case of u-tube failure.
2. Drill one 1.5" hole at the left side glass. This would allow tank to be closer to wall, but it will limit future tank relocation.
3. Drill two 1" hole at the back glass. Better than drilling one 1.5" on the back since 1" doesn't require that much space, but still it's one extra hole.

I am close to ordering the tank, and it will come drilled. I just need to choose the best option. Can any of you guys help ? Will I be fine with option 1 ?

I would never choose to do a hang on the back over drilling the tank that makes zero sense. HOB overflows are very unreliable and are a lot more of an eyesore than drilling the tank would be.

 

[Eud]

Has anyone ever found the 1.25" slip x1" street 90 that BeanAnimal shows on his diagram?

I can find slip x slip reducing 90's that I could use a stub of 1" pvc in to attach it to the bulkhead.

I can also find 1" x 1" street 90's that aren't reducing. But I cannot find a street 90 like the one shown in the diagram.

 

[Kawi9_cf]

Has anyone ever found the 1.25" slip x1" street 90 that BeanAnimal shows on his diagram?

I can find slip x slip reducing 90's that I could use a stub of 1" pvc in to attach it to the bulkhead.

I can also find 1" x 1" street 90's that aren't reducing. But I cannot find a street 90 like the one shown in the diagram.

Here you go http://www.lowes.com/pd_1636-1815-4...uctId=3371194&Ns=p_product_qty_sales_dollar|1

Its a 1" pvc street elbow. It will slip into 1" pipe (or bulkhead in this case) on one end and the other end will slip over 1" pvc pipe. The outside diameter of 1" pvc is right at 1.25" so that gives you an opening of 1.25" on that side of the elbow.

 

[Eud]

OK, but that's a 1" slip x 1" spigot or basically a 1" street 90. That's the thing I said I'd been able to find in the second to last sentence.

Is that really what he meant and just called it a 1.25" to indicate the diameter and not the pipe size? I was looking for one with one side that would fit inside a 1" bulkhead and the other side that would fit over 1.25" pipe.

Edit: Also, I was at Lowes today and tried to stick one of those 90's in my bulkhead. I made the mistake of getting 1" schedule 80 bulkheads from BRS. The "spigot" side of that Schedule 40 90 degree elbow at Lowes fits inside the bulkhead and rattles around. Maybe it would fit tighter in an ABS bulkhead.

Those schedule 80 bulkheadss have a really gradual taper that makes me think they're not actually intended to have any pipe or fitting in them, but rather to be used as a drain in a big tank with nothing on the flange side.

 

[Kawi9_cf]

They fit beautifully into my abs bulkheads I just got from brs

 

[uncleof6]

According to those that make these fittings, you should not be using schedule 80 threaded fittings with schedule 40 fittings.

I realize it was accidental, but there is no reasonable cause to justify the use of schedule 80, bulkheads or pipe/fittings, in an aquarium application.

 

[Overgrown]

I've finally made it through the entre thread (took 4 days)!

First let me add how appreciative I am of not just your design, but your continued participation in the discussion Mr. BeanAnimal, I am alos grateful to those who have used and 'mastered' the implementation of the system and keep this discussion.

One quick questions as I have not seen or either skipped over this detail:

Should I only use PVC with the sanitation tee's, or can I use the black ABS version that HomeDepot readily carries?

And is it ok to use threaded bulkheads, or is it more of a preference or what you have on hand issue?

Thank you in advance for any comments/help I may get!

I too owe Beananimal a thank you, as well as Uncleof6 whose wisdom helped me out astronomically. By far the most epic aquarium forum thread of all time:beer:

 

[Eud]

They fit beautifully into my abs bulkheads I just got from brs

Awesome. I'll do just that.

According to those that make these fittings, you should not be using schedule 80 threaded fittings with schedule 40 fittings.

I realize it was accidental, but there is no reasonable cause to justify the use of schedule 80, bulkheads or pipe/fittings, in an aquarium application.

Yep. It's total overkill and nearly impossible to get fittings for locally. I'll re-order the ABS ones from BRS. But I think back on page 50 or so of this thread which was a couple of years ago you said that the schedule 80 gate valves use a viton gasket or something which ends up not getting stem leaks when exposed to saltwater like the ones that Aquatic Eco that BeanAnimal was using. Would a Schedule 80 Spears slip/slip 1.5" gate valve be the exception to this rule?

 

[deaclauderdale]

I too owe Beananimal a thank you, as well as Uncleof6 whose wisdom helped me out astronomically. By far the most epic aquarium forum thread of all time:beer:

Yes, by far this thread has changed how I view getting water to the sump, and made me that more comfortable with trips out of town.


I went ahead and ordered the PVC sanitary there's from pex just to keep things simple, and follow the design to the tee.




Sent from my iPad using appendages!

 

[uncleof6]

Awesome. I'll do just that.



Yep. It's total overkill and nearly impossible to get fittings for locally. I'll re-order the ABS ones from BRS. But I think back on page 50 or so of this thread which was a couple of years ago you said that the schedule 80 gate valves use a viton gasket or something which ends up not getting stem leaks when exposed to saltwater like the ones that Aquatic Eco that BeanAnimal was using. Would a Schedule 80 Spears slip/slip 1.5" gate valve be the exception to this rule?

Well I would probably not want to pay for a Spears valve, however, if it has Viton seals, go for it. Spears is high quality anything. Valves are an exception, if slip/slip. The "rule" applies to threaded fittings.

 

[Eud]

Well I would probably not want to pay for a Spears valve, however, if it has Viton seals, go for it. Spears is high quality anything. Valves are an exception, if slip/slip. The "rule" applies to threaded fittings.

Looking into the specs at the Spears website, it seems they come with EPDM, Buna-N, or FKM seals. The one at BRS doesn't specify, but none of them are Viton. Maybe still not worth it.

I don't totally understand the dimensions for sched 80 vs 40. I'd have thought that pipe size specified internal size, so sched 80 pipe would be bigger outside and thus not fit into sched 40 slip fittings interchangeable with 40 pipe, but some specs I read shows that the internal diameter for sched 80 is different than 40.

So are the slip fittings interchangeable, and thus eligible for an exception to the "rule" since they're not threaded?

 

[Eud]

Another question before I start gluing stuff. If I'm going into the basement for a sump with a diagonal section of pipe, not straight vertical, would a 1" full siphon pipe be easier to purge the air out of the line and get the silent siphon started than a 1.5" one? I'd still use 1.5 for the open channel because of the much wider pipe and surface area where I'm trying to prevent the water from leaving the walls. And I'd also use it for emergency.

It's a 75 gallon tank, so I'm only looking for 750 GPH max.

 

[uncleof6]

Looking into the specs at the Spears website, it seems they come with EPDM, Buna-N, or FKM seals. The one at BRS doesn't specify, but none of them are Viton. Maybe still not worth it.[/QUOTE}

I am not able to find the link at the moment, however, GF (Georg Fischer) gate valves are available in either EPDM or Viton seals. Sch 80 valves, slip x slip, is the way to go. The GF valves disassemble in place, for seal repair/cleaning. Ref: securing the plumbing, rather than having it float in the stand.

I don't totally understand the dimensions for sched 80 vs 40. I'd have thought that pipe size specified internal size, so sched 80 pipe would be bigger outside and thus not fit into sched 40 slip fittings interchangeable with 40 pipe, but some specs I read shows that the internal diameter for sched 80 is different than 40.

So are the slip fittings interchangeable, and thus eligible for an exception to the "rule" since they're not threaded?

Why are we looking for exceptions? This applies to threaded fittings, and nothing else. The use of sch 80 threaded fittings in a sch 40 system, is based on mis-information that sch 80 threaded fittings are stronger than sch 40 threaded fittings. This is only true for solvent welded fittings. There is no reason to use sch 80 pipe and/or fittings in an aquarium system anyway. Valves are an exception to this, for longevity reasons, and one may consider unions in the same way.

The nominal pipe size is based on the inside diameter, however, the inside diameter is seldom the same as the nominal size. The inside diameter of Sch 80 is smaller than the same nominal pipe size in sch 40. So you are adding friction loss (reduction in flow) for an increase in strength that is not warranted.

 

[Eud]

Why are we looking for exceptions?

I this case I wanted to know how the size standard works to learn if I can put sched 40 PVC pipe into the aforementioned sched 80 slip/slip gate valve and expect it to fit.

The 1" sched 40 street fitting that was at Lowes would not fit into a sched 80 slip flanged bulkhead (which is what I'd already bought before I knew better). It rattled around. But the 1" sched 40 pipe did seem to fit down into it snugly. This seemed inconsisent, hence my questions about how the fittings/pipe sizes worked with sched 80 vs sched 40.

 

[uncleof6]

Try using a quality fitting, Nibco is infamous for producing low quality, inconsistent fittings. The outside diameter of 1" insert anything should be consistent between brands, whether it be schedule 80 or 40. So if the pipe fits snugly as it should, then it is the fitting that is messed up--the outside diameter of both is supposed to be the same. Get a Spears fitting, or a Lassco. You will most likely have to look elsewhere other than a big orange box store that carries little else but Chinese knock-offs, and BRS, who carries sch 80 exclusively from what I can see. What a waste.