Silent and Failsafe Overflow System

[uncleof6]

Seems like I did it. I cut the 3 returns to just under the water level in the sump and now no more bubbles in the siphon and no more gurgles.:lol2:

I adjusted the siphon valve which is just above the sump to flow halfway and seems all the sound is gone and the sump is quieter too!!

Now all I hear is the water entering the overflow box, lol. I need to eliminate that. Any leads on that? Andofcourse the distant humming of the return pump.
Does making a slope in the overflow box help with that sound?

I can't thank you enough for strongly suggesting that I get the return pump below the sump! I can just imagine what would have happened by now.
Learning a lot of things.

Thank you!

Are there teeth on the overflow? If so, cutting them off will help reduce the noise. That will also lower the water level in the main tank, not so good sometimes. The only other helpful solution to the noise is a shorter drop between tank water level and overflow water level, and a longer overflow box, adjust the height of the box, to maintain your water line, and no teeth.

 

[uncleof6]

Hey all,

Checking in with my progress:

As posted last my BHs for the 'Bean' were drilled with success. I had to tweak the Internal Overflow Weir size (due to plumbing size) and will pick up the new glass on Thursday.

1/4" Glass Bafflesare ready for instalation this weekend. Through local resources I've acquired a Coralife 65 Protein Skimmer & Rio 2100 Pumphead. I also have modded a Cascade Canister for Phos/Carbon and aquired a Danner Mag 18 for the Return Pump.

I built a 4" Skimmer Stand with a Heater Rack under it for the Sumps drain compartment and have cut egg crate to fit.

My next challenge is engineering my return and tank flow. I have a thought that I once again (sribbled) attached that depicts using the good flow from my Mag18 to lift from the sump to the DT (approx 3') then drop down to the bottom of the DT in a circuit. I then envision using a 3/4" Closed Circuit (mid-tank) with 4 Loc-Line Arms as needed.



Thoughts, sugestions, comments, jokes and free beer appreciated...


Best- Woody

P.S. Next "Big Things"... LIGHTS and Stand Skin... YUK!

And I envision your tank draining to the bottom, all over your floor. No joke. Never put a sump return at the bottom of the tank, unless you enjoy water all over your living room. No, don't ask about siphon breaks, and check valves. Don't do it, unless your sump can hold every drop that is going to drain out of the DT.

Also that fangled pretzel return is going to be friction loss city. Tongue in cheek, but that return configuration is going to cost you in terms of friction loss.

Just an observation, but you can do a lot better than a mag 18. IMHO, it is a piece of junk.

 

[BigH2OChief]

Thanls uncleof6,

Lesson learned (the easy way) on 'Return' location. Delete is my friend and I'm starting over at the drawing board tonight.

Regarding the Mag18... I've heard good and bad and it was too good a deal so it will have to do the work for now.

Have a great day all!

 

[Kawi9_cf]

Beananimal and Uncle,

I just got the bean animal finished and running on my tank with the dc 5000 return. It is absolutely silent! I have to keep checking it to make sure its running because I can't hear it. I want to give a huge thank you to both of you for all you guys do. Without you I would have never been able to achieve a system anywhere near as quiet or as efficient.

Thanks
-Nick

And for anyone looking at this thread thinking about going with this overflow I highly reccomend it. It is completely worth the extra expense and effort. Its quieter than the aquaclear 70 HOB filter on my other tank is.

 

[awais98]

Are there teeth on the overflow? If so, cutting them off will help reduce the noise. That will also lower the water level in the main tank, not so good sometimes. The only other helpful solution to the noise is a shorter drop between tank water level and overflow water level, and a longer overflow box, adjust the height of the box, to maintain your water line, and no teeth.

Hi uncleof6,

So my weir is from end to end 60 inches with no teeth, just like the original bean animal.
To reduce the drop between the tank water level and overflow water level, I just placed some plastic sheet (left overs from failed ideas) at 45 degrees, top from the overflow edge and bottom near the glass back, see pic. Most water now slopes on it, reducing the drop noise significantly.

Now next goal, how to eliminate or reduce the pump humming in the living room.

I do have a rubber sheet 2 mm thin, between the pump and the 2x10 it's screwed to. Then a Carpet cushion felt between the 2x10 and the stand base, and they are screwed tight.
I do not feel any vibration there.
Any thing you suggest I can do to reduce th notice?

Thank you
Awais

 

[hogfanreefer]

Dumb question but where do you guys get that pristine, shiny white PVC pipe? All thats available around here is not reflective and has writing (specs) all over it.

 

[Augster]

I got mine at FlexPVC; look for their "Furniture Grade Gloss" PVC...

 

[da4n2tone]

After reading for the last few years and gaining a ton of knowledge, for this I thank everyone that contributed the questions and answers for food for thought, I figured it might be time to ask some of my own. This will be my first post and have not figured out how all of the posting works just yet. I currently have a 135 reef that is a peninsula and have utilized the Bean setup on one end for about 2 years and it works great and I have never had any issues with it. I am in the process of possibly designing and having a 180 built to my spec with an external overflow running most of the rear of the tank. The weir will be approximately 63 inches wide by 1 inch tall. I have a couple of questions about weir height for Bean, teesquare, uncleof6 or anyone that can assist. Such as is the 1 inch too much or should it be less/more? The intended return pump for the new system will be a reeflo dart. As soon as I figure out how to post drawings I can upload them for opinion and suggestions.

 

[Eud]

After whining about it and going back and forth deciding what to do I'm going to now do my best to implement exactly what BeanAnimal started this thread with. Just takes me a while.

I have 1" ABS bulkheads, 1.5" Sanitary tees, 1.5" to 1" coupler for the San-tee, threaded caps, JG fitting and tubing for the open channel, etc. Now I'd like to get a quick confirmation that I'm understanding the various posts that I've read in the past (but now can't find) before I drill my holes.

So can someone confirm that I'm putting the holes in the right place?

I have a rimless 75 gallon tank. I have a 45mm drill bit, so if I understand what I've read in the past, the closest I should put the edge of the hole to any other edge (another hole or the top rim) is 1.5*45mm = 68mm (2.67in), right?

So I'll put the top edge of the open channel overflow at 2.67in down from the rim.

I'll add around .25in for the full-siphon and put the top edge of that one at about 3in down from the rim because BeanAnimal has said that it might help it start faster but isn't strictly necessary.

I'll put the dry emergency at either of those heights. Probably the higher one, because why not.

I'll build a coast to coast internal out of two pieces of glass with an acrylic lid to keep it pretty and make the weir height at about 1.5in from the top of the glass with the expectation that I'll have about an inch of dry glass around the top.

I'll bring the returns over the top in the corners and size the return pump to put about 700gph through the sump directly under the tank (not in the basement like I'd been trying to do).

Sound like a plan?

 

[uncleof6]

After whining about it and going back and forth deciding what to do I'm going to now do my best to implement exactly what BeanAnimal started this thread with. Just takes me a while.

I have 1" ABS bulkheads, 1.5" Sanitary tees, 1.5" to 1" coupler for the San-tee, threaded caps, JG fitting and tubing for the open channel, etc. Now I'd like to get a quick confirmation that I'm understanding the various posts that I've read in the past (but now can't find) before I drill my holes.

So can someone confirm that I'm putting the holes in the right place?

I have a rimless 75 gallon tank. I have a 45mm drill bit, so if I understand what I've read in the past, the closest I should put the edge of the hole to any other edge (another hole or the top rim) is 1.5*45mm = 68mm (2.67in), right?

Closest would be 45mm. It is 1.5*hole diameter if you measure to the center of the hole. Only makes sense to mark the hole center right?

So I'll put the top edge of the open channel overflow at 2.67in down from the rim.

I'll add around .25in for the full-siphon and put the top edge of that one at about 3in down from the rim because BeanAnimal has said that it might help it start faster but isn't strictly necessary.

Why? This was a "fix" for a phantom problem that was caused by some other "inconsistency" between "as designed" and "was designed." Put all the holes at the same level.

I'll put the dry emergency at either of those heights. Probably the higher one, because why not.

All at the same level.

I'll build a coast to coast internal out of two pieces of glass with an acrylic lid to keep it pretty and make the weir height at about 1.5in from the top of the glass with the expectation that I'll have about an inch of dry glass around the top.

If it is a rimless tank, that is one thing, if it is a rimmed tank, then place the top edge of the weir, even with the bottom of the trim, to hide the water line.

I'll bring the returns over the top in the corners and size the return pump to put about 700gph through the sump directly under the tank (not in the basement like I'd been trying to do).

Sound like a plan?

About? It can be figured out closer than about lol. In the end you want to shoot for about 750 gph or better. Better is always better.

 

[da4n2tone]

I think I figured out how to attach stuff. Can someone tell me if the water line will be showing if the trim is 1.5 inches from the very top ( all glass will be 3/8). I will be using a beananimal overflow in external box and using a reeflo dart pump. The bottom 3 holes will be for a closed loop system and the top 2 are for return from overflow/sump. The bean overflow will be 1.5 inch bulkheads in external. Do I need to decrease the depth of the notch based on the width of weir? The tank is not built yet so any other suggestions would be great.

 

[Eud]

Closest would be 45mm. It is 1.5*hole diameter if you measure to the center of the hole. Only makes sense to mark the hole center right?

Wow, I thought I'd read and re-read this and that I understood it finally as hole edge to hole edge, not center to edge. Glad I asked. Maybe the box can be smaller.

45mm it is from top of glass to edge of hole, or 68mm from top to center of hole. And all three at the same height.

The return pump I have is a Reeflo Blowhole 1450 external, so I have no doubt that I can exceed 750 when putting it right under the tank. It has three settings two of which could probably do it, but I don't see the purpose so much since my skimmer is doing much less than that. Maybe it's the fact that faster flow over the weir will pull out more goop from the tank to let it settle and be cleaned easier in the sump? I just don't know why such high flow rates through the sump. I'll have 2 Tunze 6095 in there for stirring the place up.

By the way, how do you split up the quotes like you do, uncleof6? It makes it easier to follow, but I couldn't figure out how to do it. Do you manually add in the quote blocks?

 

[uncleof6]

Wow, I thought I'd read and re-read this and that I understood it finally as hole edge to hole edge, not center to edge. Glad I asked. Maybe the box can be smaller.

45mm it is from top of glass to edge of hole, or 68mm from top to center of hole. And all three at the same height.

The return pump I have is a Reeflo Blowhole 1450 external, so I have no doubt that I can exceed 750 when putting it right under the tank. It has three settings two of which could probably do it, but I don't see the purpose so much since my skimmer is doing much less than that. Maybe it's the fact that faster flow over the weir will pull out more goop from the tank to let it settle and be cleaned easier in the sump? I just don't know why such high flow rates through the sump. I'll have 2 Tunze 6095 in there for stirring the place up.

By the way, how do you split up the quotes like you do, uncleof6? It makes it easier to follow, but I couldn't figure out how to do it. Do you manually add in the quote blocks?

One of the hardest things to get across to folks, due to the vast amount of misinformation published concerning much of this hobby, is that skimmer flow/performance doesn't have squat to do with the flow rate through the sump. It is an absurd notion, contrived to counter using larger pumps based on the needs of the system, in favor of using "less watts." (the real solution is to stop using the old antiquated "standard recommendation" pumps that will never be updated, and are just about obsolete.)

Working from the bottom up, low flow rates turn your sump/fuge into a garbage dump. That is exactly opposite of what you want. A garbage dump pollutes your tank. You want higher flow rates to keep the "garbage" from settling out. The "fuge" wants a higher flow rate as well, of course along the lines of paragraph 1 above, "NO NO you want a slow flow through the 'fuge' for better contact time"--ummmm not--another piece of misguided information. Full return flow through your sump is not uncalled for (difficult though because they all want to use pumps that are too small to begin with.) It is all cause and affect.

Up in the DT, "let's slow the flow down, we don't need such high flow cause the skimmer only..." Well, of course, let's mix the dissolved organics that congregate at the water surface, back down into the tank with power heads, so it never does get to the skimmer for removal. Let's have a slow surface renewal rate at the same time, so we get poor gas exchange. Cause and affect. Well we are not running under-gravel filters anymore, so the old rules no longer apply.

So "let's create problems to save a few bucks on electricity" is what it all really comes to; nothing else--aside from spreading misinformation to defend the practice. I am sorry, this is not an economically efficient hobby. It is a luxury hobby. At the same time, there are pumps out there that, if you are willing to spend the cash upfront, cost less than a light bulb to run (incandescent that is.)

Incidentally, 750 gph is pathetically low in the grand scheme of things.

Use these tags: to begin a quote use [ QUOTE ] no spaces. To end a quote use [ /QUOTE ] no spaces. Add these tags were needed to break up the original quoted post. Careful, it is easy to miss one, but that is what the edit button is for.

 

[Eud]

Thanks. I really don't care about the power, just didn't see the purpose of moving water through an alternate tank (the sump) with only a fraction of it getting treated. I'm not sure if I've read the various myths about this that are out there, just my own possibly flawed reasons on this one.

Even at really high flow rates what is to stop the sump from turning into a garbage dump? I kind of thought that was the point since its easier to clean out than the display and most folks do water changes from the sump anyway and can vacuum out the goop. Are you trying to keep the stuff moving until it dissolves and gets taken out by the skimmer? I do get the reasoning when talking about surface renewal, though, I think.

I'm not set on a fuge at this point, btw, and might just put a 5 gallon bucket full of oolitic sand above my sump with a circulation pump running water over it.


Sorry, this is off topic from the thread, but thanks for the info.

 

[uncleof6]

Thanks. I really don't care about the power, just didn't see the purpose of moving water through an alternate tank (the sump) with only a fraction of it getting treated. I'm not sure if I've read the various myths about this that are out there, just my own possibly flawed reasons on this one.

Surface renewal gas exchange. More times through the sump = more chances the skimmer has to get to it.

Even at really high flow rates what is to stop the sump from turning into a garbage dump? I kind of thought that was the point since its easier to clean out than the display and most folks do water changes from the sump anyway and can vacuum out the goop. Are you trying to keep the stuff moving until it dissolves and gets taken out by the skimmer? I do get the reasoning when talking about surface renewal, though, I think.

Nothing, but it helps. I run systems with 3 - 4000 gph through the sump. Most stuff just blows on through. There really isn't any reason to remove it, it is food.

I'm not set on a fuge at this point, btw, and might just put a 5 gallon bucket full of oolitic sand above my sump with a circulation pump running water over it.

Bucket DSB will work better than a "fuge" as long as you feed it clean water (no garage falls out on the sand bed.)

Sorry, this is off topic from the thread, but thanks for the info.

No problem unless it goes south......lol

 

[Eud]

Surface renewal gas exchange. More times through the sump = more chances the skimmer has to get to it.

Thanks. Makes sense.

Nothing, but it helps. I run systems with 3 - 4000 gph through the sump. Most stuff just blows on through. There really isn't any reason to remove it, it is food.

OK, thanks. Wonder if I could really blow 1000 gph through the 20 gallon long that I got second hand with baffles installed already that I was intending to use for a sump.

The sections on it are roughly 15" skimmer and drain pipes--7" probes and heaters--bubble trap--7" return pump but mine will be external, straight out the end. Might be looking at a new build for that since it's only 12in wide.

Bucket DSB will work better than a "fuge" as long as you feed it clean water (no garage falls out on the sand bed.)

I'd probably feed it from the return section of the sump and let it drain back into the return also. Maybe put a sponge on the intake of the bucket recirc MJ1200 to keep any crud out. I'd put the overflow outputs with most of the doodoo into the first section with the skimmer. Since I have a little sump anyway I should have room to stack a bucket somewhere in there.

No problem unless it goes south......lol

Thanks! I promise not to accuse you of bad advice if I mess it up.

 

[meegwell]

I think I know the answer here, but I'll run this by the group anyway incase Im missing something obvious.

I had to rebuild my siphon pipe yesterday due to a snail clog. I cut and coupled from the horizontal coming out of the bulkhead on the back of the tank. On that was a new tee, slip x thread w/cap, and down pipe with a newly added union. After the union i added back my same plumbing with the ball valve and some lenth to have it terminate at the same spot...about an inch under the water line.

This is all 1" pvc.

Problem: im now getting a gurgling noise in the siphon pipe I didnt have before. It gurgles quite loud about every 5 to 10 seconds. Spits some bubbles out like a burp each time.

My first thought is an air leak. Im suprised because i did take the time to make good pvc joint seals...cleaned well, twisted and held each connection.

The primary new part of this rebuild is the addition of the union. I tightened it as much as I could.

Any ideas of what this gurgling may be besides what I've noted?

 

[meegwell]

Dbl post

 

[Lubecky]

I had another thread going but it would prob do better here ( I hope). I plan on doing the classic bean overflow setup but I need to fabricate my new acrylic tank first by adding an external overflow. The tank is 112 gal. I added a closed loop as you can see and now need to drill a coast to coast overflow on the back wall. I was thinking of leaving 3" on each end though.

If I drill 3/8" holes 1.5" long, space 3/4" will that be enough and sill keep the integrity of the tank? I would start the hole 1.5" from the top. Sound good?

Now if all that sounds right, I wanted to make the overflow box only as deep as I need it for the 1.5" drain pipes. Based on my overflow cuts will that produce enough water to enter for the 1.5" drain pipes? I realize that the pump choice and size factors in as well. Any thoughts on brand and size of pump?

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[aus996]

I think I know the answer here, but I'll run this by the group anyway incase Im missing something obvious.

I had to rebuild my siphon pipe yesterday due to a snail clog. I cut and coupled from the horizontal coming out of the bulkhead on the back of the tank. On that was a new tee, slip x thread w/cap, and down pipe with a newly added union. After the union i added back my same plumbing with the ball valve and some lenth to have it terminate at the same spot...about an inch under the water line.

This is all 1" pvc.

Problem: im now getting a gurgling noise in the siphon pipe I didnt have before. It gurgles quite loud about every 5 to 10 seconds. Spits some bubbles out like a burp each time.

My first thought is an air leak. Im suprised because i did take the time to make good pvc joint seals...cleaned well, twisted and held each connection.

The primary new part of this rebuild is the addition of the union. I tightened it as much as I could.

Any ideas of what this gurgling may be besides what I've noted?

It sounds like its not staying at full siphon, air leaks aside, you have also added a union into the mix and cleared some blockages. You will need to retune your system again. Start by playing with the ball valve progressivley clsoing it off. You may also find you might need to shorten the length of pipe into the sump not by much but it can make all the difference. If you are sure there are no air leaks this is where I would start