Silent and Failsafe Overflow System

[BeanAnimal]

The "black tubing" was on the original standpipe setup. It was some kind of pool and spa tubing and was a PITA. The standpipes on the current setup are extended into the sump (another bend to go back to vertical).

 

[deaclauderdale]

The "black tubing" was on the original standpipe setup. It was some kind of pool and spa tubing and was a PITA. The standpipes on the current setup are extended into the sump (another bend to go back to vertical).

I was afraid you were going to say that. So a simple 45 back down into the sump ending a 1" beneath the water....got it.




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[Lubecky]

I finally drilled the two 18" holes in the back of the tank for my external overflow. My question is because this is an external overflow will it be ok to keep with the original design and place the bulkheads on the back panel of the overflow box or should they be on the bottom?
<a href="http://s1251.photobucket.com/albums/hh542/lubecky1/?action=view&current=044956E1-6DBB-4847-9E2E-CFE684C16055-13511-000013BB8FAE49BA_zps8667f9a6.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1251.photobucket.com/albums/hh542/lubecky1/044956E1-6DBB-4847-9E2E-CFE684C16055-13511-000013BB8FAE49BA_zps8667f9a6.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket Pictures, Images and Photos" /></a>

 

[BeanAnimal]

Either way will work

 

[java]

Ok i haven't read all of it but i search and didn't find a good answer.

Can this set up be used in a corner overflow with vertical standpipes? IE 3 holes in the bottom of the tank in the corner and no elbows on the top of the drain lines. I want to have the back of my tank flush with the wall ideally. I really like the drain system and thought this might be a solution.

 

[uncleof6]

Search terms: "Corner overflow" "siphon system" "Bean system" "Silent & Failsafe Overflow System" You can even add: "Herbie" to the search terms.

It has been gone over at least 100 times in this thread alone.

 

[Lubecky]

Thanks bean

 

[darb85]

is there any reason that a 90 degree elbow to run to one side of my sump from where the overflow is mounted(poor planning on my part) is a bad idea? should I just run 45s?

Also, I am running 3/4 Lines(22 gallon tank) How far below the top edge should my holes be? I was planning 1-1.5 inches. will this work?

How big should my overflow be? I have to build the Coast to Coast in my tank, was planning on 3 inches tall by about 2 inches, which should clear the elbows, but wanted to make sure this made sense.

Finally, Sorry I know, Ill go back into my noob corner soon, Emergency overflow will be .5 inches below top of tank, tis Ok?

 

[ronl]

Ok, I've read the last 50+ pages of this thread as well as Beananimal's webpage and I think I have gathered the info that I need to my tank build. Planning a 24x24x12 shallow rimless cube (30 gal) to be built with 1/2" glass all around.

The back wall of the tank will have a cutout for the overflow to an external box and will have have two holes for the returns. The attached diagram shows my plans for the back wall of the tank including the external box.

The 3 drainage bulkheads and 2 return bulkheads will all be 1" bulkheads. Plumbing inside the box will all be 1" pipes/tees/elbows. Siphon and emergency drain pipes will be 1" pipe to the sump and the open drain will be 1.25" pipe to the sump. The returns will be all 1" pipe. In the diagram, the distance between the bottom of the downturned elbows and the bottom of the box is about 1/2", which can be increased to 3/4" if needed. I plan on running about 300-400 gph through this system.

I think the placement of all of my holes meet the guidelines for safety. The external box will be 5.5" front-to-back, so the center of the holes will be 2.75" from front and back edges.


I still have the following questions that I hope you all can help answer:

1. In the diagram, siphon is on the far right and the open drain is in the middle. This will allow the siphon to have the straightest line to the sump. The alternative would be to move the open drain to the right so that it has the straightest line to the sump. Is it better to have the siphon or the open drain with the straightest drop to the sump?

2. To keep the plumbing in the box lower profile and less visible, I was planning to use PVC slip plugs instead of caps on top of the tees. I will glue the elbows, tees, and plugs, but was not planning to glue the connection to the bulkhead so that I can pull them out for cleaning. Is this ok since the connection to the bulkhead will be a couple inches underwater. Or will leaving unglued connection to the bulkhead allow air into the siphon?

3. Is the straight pipe to the emergency drain ok, or should there be something on top of the pipe? I have seen some that look like they have some type of adapter on top of the pipe.

4. The weir will be about 13" wide, which will give me about a 1/4" - 1/3" water height over the weir at 300-400 gph. So the cutout will be 1.25" high so that water level in the tank is about 1" below the top. Any concerns there?

Sorry about the crappy diagram, but I don't know how to use the nice 3D CAD software, so I had to create this in Excel and then convert to a picture.

Thanks,
Ron

 

[torino06]

i was trying to get a little help with the dimensions for my interior/exterior boxes. i currently have 3 (45mm) holes drilled that from the top of the rim are 4.5" down to the center of the hole. assuming i dont cut any of the fittings, i believe i would need a height of 7.5" (25x4.5x7.5"). that will allow my water level to be below the holes. water level will be the center of the Tee on the open channel correct? in the picture it is set at 5.5". the interior weir i was looking at dims of 38x1.75xH????originally i wanted the internal and external bottoms to be even so it was aesthetically pleasing, but it seems like a big waste of space to take the internal down that low so should i just make it .5" under the holes? my bulkheads are 1" and the fittings are 1.25". all help is greatly appreciated and thanks to all for the support in the development of this thread!

 

[JJ Ocean]

Great wealth of info on this thread "“ thanks guys! After going through all the pages, I'm pretty sure I have all the details. However, does anybody see any issues with 2 specifics of my planned setup:

Tank: 420g (75x36x36) with full C2C weir and external overflow box. Overflow box roughly 75"L x 5"W x 6"T. (4) 1.5" bulkhead drains on bottom/floor of overflow box (not back side like typically depicted). The 4 drains will be configured as 1 Siphon, 1 Open Channel and 2 Emergency drains with 1.5" PVC throughout to sump. About 40" head height. Reeflo Hammerhead as return pump with 6 dual loc-line returns.

Question 1: Any issues/diasadavanges with just using inlet guard/screen on siphon (no elbow), tee/elbow/cap/tubing completely INSIDE the overflow box for open channel and just straight pipe for the 2 emergency drains?

Question 2: Any issue/disadvantage with siphon drain being one of the drains near the end of the tank (16" from tank end) vs. more center located drains (12" from center line)? My design vision being that the end drain has the straightest shot to the sump drain bulkhead "“ less horizontal travel. I have a little concern that END siphon drain might/could pull water through the weir unevenly. I don't think that's the case if I keep a little water drop/fall as it exits the weir and into the overflow box"¦ however, if I was sure I wouldn't be asking the question.

Design changes cost less than PVC changes! Thanks.

 

[uncleof6]

Great wealth of info on this thread – thanks guys! After going through all the pages, I’m pretty sure I have all the details. However, does anybody see any issues with 2 specifics of my planned setup:

Tank: 420g (75x36x36) with full C2C weir and external overflow box. Overflow box roughly 75”L x 5”W x 6”T. (4) 1.5” bulkhead drains on bottom/floor of overflow box (not back side like typically depicted). The 4 drains will be configured as 1 Siphon, 1 Open Channel and 2 Emergency drains with 1.5” PVC throughout to sump. About 40” head height. Reeflo Hammerhead as return pump with 6 dual loc-line returns.

Question 1: Any issues/diasadavanges with just using inlet guard/screen on siphon (no elbow), tee/elbow/cap/tubing completely INSIDE the overflow box for open channel and just straight pipe for the 2 emergency drains?

Bottom line, I don't see any point to doing this in the first place.

Question 2: Any issue/disadvantage with siphon drain being one of the drains near the end of the tank (16” from tank end) vs. more center located drains (12” from center line)? My design vision being that the end drain has the straightest shot to the sump drain bulkhead – less horizontal travel. I have a little concern that END siphon drain might/could pull water through the weir unevenly. I don’t think that’s the case if I keep a little water drop/fall as it exits the weir and into the overflow box… however, if I was sure I wouldn’t be asking the question.

I think you may be a little confused here. Nothing "pulls" water over the weir. The driving force for the waterfall, is the head height above the top edge of the weir, and gravity...

Where the weir is is important. Full length of the tank is best. Where the pipes are, makes no difference.

Design changes cost less than PVC changes! Thanks.

PVC is cheap...consider having to run titanium...

If you are targeting above 4000gph, which is what you should do with this tank, I would have a tendency to use 2" pipe, considering you only have ~ a 40" drop. 1.5" pipe is cutting it close.

 

[JJ Ocean]

Thanks for the response.

Bottom line, I don't see any point to doing this in the first place.

Is there a specific piece/area you are talking about here? Not sure I'm following you. Several of those changes are required to have a BA overflow (open channel & emergency). Intake screen is clearly optional and I could run the open channel air line starting under the box (vs. inside), but that would take up a ton of clearance in the back.

Yes, water over the weir ... DT Head and gravity. I was thinking about that wrong.

Yes again, 1.5" is close to the turnover I want. Tank is already drilled to that size. Is it possible or feasible to run 2 of my drains as siphons since I have 4? Or does that make leveling and dialing them in near impossible? Obviously, I'd need to have both or 1 dialed in.

Thanks for the feedback!

 

[uncleof6]

Thanks for the response.



Is there a specific piece/area you are talking about here? Not sure I'm following you. Several of those changes are required to have a BA overflow (open channel & emergency). Intake screen is clearly optional and I could run the open channel air line starting under the box (vs. inside), but that would take up a ton of clearance in the back.

Yes, water over the weir ... DT Head and gravity. I was thinking about that wrong.

Yes again, 1.5" is close to the turnover I want. Tank is already drilled to that size. Is it possible or feasible to run 2 of my drains as siphons since I have 4? Or does that make leveling and dialing them in near impossible? Obviously, I'd need to have both or 1 dialed in.

Thanks for the feedback!

"just using inlet guard/screen on siphon (no elbow),"

You want the clearance behind the tank. Can't work on stuff crammed against the wall... poor ventilation, blah blah.

Supposed to ask this stuff before you drill glass. Now you got a mess.

Run 2" pipe on the bulkheads, and maximize your "head room." (less friction loss in the drain line) You should be fine--with only one siphon, one open channel, and ONE dry emergency.

What is the loc-line for? You get a monster pump, and then choke it with loc-line? That is what power heads are for. One should have different thoughts when running big tanks. These are not "hobby" tanks.

 

[JJ Ocean]

Thanks for the feedback uncleof6!

 

[overexposed]

Hey all, I would like some feedback on my plans before I drill anything.

For my 90g tank, I've acquired 4x 1 1/2" bulkheads. I have a 30g sump. I am planning to do a straight implement of a beananimal overflow, only modification being full 1.5" piping and fittings. There will be two 45's in the drain standpipes, with them going otherwise straight down to the sump. I am planning on a single return line that terminates with a bulkhead and an unglued 45 degree 1.5" slip spigot inside the tank, that I can rotate to change the angle of flow. The overflow box will be placed near one end of the tank, the return bulkhead at the opposite.

Since I want to grow SPS, I want to turn over the DT water as much as possible. I've read that 30-50x turnover is good for SPS. I am planning to purchase a Magdrive 24 as my return pump. I am thinking that I will have about 5-6' of head loss, which may result in about 1800 GPH return (if anyone could do the math for me that would be AMAZING as I have no idea how to figure it out aside from head loss charts and calcs). For the rest of my flow I plan to use a couple big powerheads, am considering an MP40 on the overflow side of the tank, with a Koralia Evo or Magnum on the other side aimed in the general direction of the overflow. Hopefully this will create a gyre effect. I plan on aquascaping two islands, thinking maybe I can get a current running between them. Aiming for about 20 times turnover from the overflow/return system and another 20-30 from powerheads.

Given all that, do any of you see major design flaws that I've overlooked, or see my goals of 40-50x turnover as being impossible to achieve with the given setup? Will it put too much water through my sump? Will the single 1.5" return cut it? (I'm thinking that it will be sufficient since the siphon flow is adjustable, and the pump will also have a gate valve on it but I hope to not use it.) Anyone have a guess at what sort of GPH I'll see on the return? Are my guesses close? I'm not planning any outlets off the return for reactors at this time but may add in later - there will be unions in place allowing me to disassemble the plumbing. Or I may just plumb reactors over the side of my sump... anyways, point is, none right now.

My main concern is that I will have too much flow... I'm pretty sure the overflow system can handle it fine but like I said I don't know how to do the math for it. My secondary concern is about sump/skimmer effectiveness with the high turnover I'm planning, and possibly splashing inside the sump.

Any comments or suggestions will be greatly appreciated, thanks for reading.

 

[Lavoisier]

Another question to the thread:

Here is the current design on my 400g build (Reeflo Hammerhead Gold):

I am cutting the holes in the C2C today or tomorrow and would like to gravity feed the skimmer with the surface water and its higher organic content. Would having a 4th drain to the skimmer effect the Bean Animal performance? Thanks in advance for your thoughts.

 

[deaclauderdale]

Question?

Can I add the ball valve(s) in the space between the two 45's?
Secondly, I am sure you notice one of my pipes has 90's on it (emergency drain), can it stay this way? It was done so that I did not have to remove the 2x4 pictured. I've done my level best to follow this design to the "T" in all but this one aspect of it, if it needs to be changed then I will.

Thank you again for all your help and the information posted in this thread.

 

[BeanAnimal]

Yes, you can place the valve close to the sump.... as far as the back to back 90's, it is never a great idea... but they will likely serve the purpose for the emergency. No way to bring them under the bracing with 45's?

 

[deaclauderdale]

Yes, you can place the valve close to the sump.... as far as the back to back 90's, it is never a great idea... but they will likely serve the purpose for the emergency. No way to bring them under the bracing with 45's?

I'll buy two 45's and try it today, thank you for the prompt response!

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