Silent and Failsafe Overflow System

[autodave]

New to the site. Trying to get a leemar tank on order. The dimensions will be 48x30x22. I wanted to do a eurobrace on three sides. On the backside of the 48 I wanted to have the glass notched down an 11/2 from the top. This will be my weir that drops the water in the trough of the external overflow. I think it will give the illusion of an infinity pool. Now here is the part I am having trouble with. The back trough or external overflow will be the length of the tank. I wanted to drill the bottom of the trough for my drains. Any thoughts? My thinking was to achieve a clean look and all you see is the top of the caps of the three drains of the BA overflow. By doing it this way I will be able to get the tank close to the wall as possible and not seeing the drains behind the tank as much. If this is designed this way and they are able to manufacture it. What would be the height of the trough? And the width being the bulkheads will be in the bottom. Also I don't want the water coming over the falls to go into the safety drain. Any help or thoughts would be appreciated.
Thanks

I have a LeeMar that has been notched, except my external overflow is not the full length of the back glass. My overflow box is 4in.deep and 10in.high. I have a 1.25 siphon, 1.5 open and emergency. I wanted to do a full C2C but was told the back glass would need to be 1in. which would be very costly.

 

[Clear water]

Any pics autodave. What's your dimensions?

 

[autodave]

My tank is 30x30x24, the external overflow is 18x4x10, I can PM you for more details.

 

[Overgrown]

I have a LeeMar that has been notched, except my external overflow is not the full length of the back glass. My overflow box is 4in.deep and 10in.high. I have a 1.25 siphon, 1.5 open and emergency. I wanted to do a full C2C but was told the back glass would need to be 1in. which would be very costly.

Seems like a euro would take care of any pressure issues. Is your tank eurobraced?

 

[autodave]

Yes, it still has a full top eurobrace

 

[ReefDVMs]

In this case, the regulation valve MUST be at the sump, otherwise the siphon standpipe is almost sure to cavitate due to the distance of the drop.

The open channel standpipe may need to be leaned to the side slightly to ensure that the water fllows down the wall and does not drop staight through the center.

Thanks BeanAnimal for the help, putting the gate valve at the end by the sump worked perfected.

 

[FuzzyZipperbaum]

Thanks BeanAnimal for the help, putting the gate valve at the end by the sump worked perfected.

Wow am I glad I checked in to read this...I am plumbing tomorrow morning 2 tanks with a 12' drop, tanks on the second floor, fish room on the first.... So I should NOT put the gate value under the tank but on the first floor before the water hits the skimmer?

also it was mentioned to "lean" the open flow pipe....can you guys give me a bit more color on what lean means...

Lastly.... How much of a drop for water over the overflow into the overflow box do you want to start the pipes.... Put another way....Can the pipes be set say 6" below the overflow....I have some clearance problems on top of the overflow box....I want to keep the top of the pipes under them.....

 

[BeanAnimal]

Yes with a long drop like that, the valve should be near the discharge to prevent cavitation. Are you feeding the skimmer directly? While this may work as planned, it may also make the system (both the balance point of the siphon and the skimmer water level) unstable. I am not saying it will not work, but there are a lot of variables that come into play as the head in the tank and the skimmer interact.

The longer the drop into the overflow box, the more chance there is for watefall noise and/or creating bubbles that will get sucked into the standpipes (more possible noise).

 

[CJBROWN]

Still need input

Still need input

I had this all figured out when I built my 75 gallon reef with an external drainbox and a bean setup. It works perfectly and is silent. Happily humming along for the past couple years.

Now I've inherited a 110gl I want to set up for FOLR and it has 2 internal drain boxes with 1" bottom drains. What is the recommended setup?
I plan to run a 1000 to 1200gph sump pump, with additional circulation with power heads.

Will just running elbows at the tops of the two boxes be noisy? It came with slotted stand pipes but those have got to be noisy.

It also came with a pretty elaborate trickle filter sump with bioballs and was thinking about going ahead and using it with just fish, add a big protien skimmer.

I guess I can set it up in the garage and test run it.

Just looking for suggestions here.

As always, great thread!

Bumped for replies...

I can always drill a couple more holes in the back of the tank in the drain boxes. Really, I'm looking for a way to utilize what's already there.

another option would be to connect the two boxes with a weir across the back. It's a pretty wide tank though, I'd have a four and a half foot weir.

 

[XStroX]

I have two questions related to the Bean's siphon setup I'm hoping someone can help me out with.

1. If I have 3 bulkheads drilled in the bottom of my tank, is there any need for the elbows at the top? Or can I have a vertical riser for full siphon that stops at say 2.25" from the top of the tank, vertical riser for open channel that stops slightly higher 2.00" from top of the tank and finally an emergency vertical riser that stops 1" from the top of the tank? I'm trying not to make it more complex than necessary but am having trouble finding a diagram of a Bean setup with bulkheads drilled at the bottom.

2. I've been bouncing back and forth between sending 750 GPH to the sump from my 75 gallon tank and sending something around half that and using power heads in the display tank. If I'm only sending 300-400 GPH, should I still use Bean's setup or at low flow rates is there something even easier and just as failsafe?

Thanks!

 

[XStroX]

For some reason I can't edit my previous post...

For my first question above, I spent some time searching this thread and did find this from BeanAnimal: "The water cares-not where it passes through the glass. That said, the 'holes' need to be in the same overflow box" and "Yes, the ball valve would be below the tank. The standpipe, tee and elbow combination IN the overflow box and set to the desired water level. "

Sounds like I need a tee and elbow on those vertical risers. Can someone explain what this does that just the vertical riser does not?

My 2nd question would still apply as I have not yet found an answer to that.

Thank you all.

 

[BeanAnimal]

CJBROWN:

With only (2) holes, this system will not work. Splitting those two holes between two boxes makes things even trickier. Your only safe option is a Durso or stockman in each box. Flow rate? Maybe 300GPH each before noise becomes an issue.

 

[BeanAnimal]

I have two questions related to the Bean's siphon setup I'm hoping someone can help me out with.

1. If I have 3 bulkheads drilled in the bottom of my tank, is there any need for the elbows at the top? Or can I have a vertical riser for full siphon that stops at say 2.25" from the top of the tank, vertical riser for open channel that stops slightly higher 2.00" from top of the tank and finally an emergency vertical riser that stops 1" from the top of the tank?

Without an elbow at the top the siphon standpipe will easily draw a vortex from the surface. This will reduce flow, cause noise, and inject bubbles into the sump.

Without an elbow at the top the sound from the water falling through the standpipe will be much more audible. The other side effect is how the standpipe kicks in during fail-safe operation as a full siphon.

The emergency standpipe can be open top without an elbow.

2. I've been bouncing back and forth between sending 750 GPH to the sump from my 75 gallon tank and sending something around half that and using power heads in the display tank. If I'm only sending 300-400 GPH, should I still use Bean's setup or at low flow rates is there something even easier and just as failsafe?

At very low flow (400 GPH) the three standpipes setup as dursos should prove to be rather quiet.


Lastly: It sounds like you want to run these standpipes without using an overflow box. You will get no surface skimming and that is not a good idea for a reef tank or fo tank.

 

[BeanAnimal]

also it was mentioned to "lean" the open flow pipe....can you guys give me a bit more color on what lean means...

If the open channel standpipe is perfectly vertical from display-to-basement, the water may fall straight through the center of the pipe, causing noise as it does. Also with such a long drop, water running down the pipe wall accelerate due to gravity. The friction of the pipe wall will tend to keep SOME of it from accelerating. At some point the water begins to tumble (causing noise) in the standpipe.

Slightly leaning the standpipe to one side will help the water to run down one wall instead of tumbling to the basement. This is not a "must-do" but can help in some instances.

 

[CJBROWN]

CJBROWN:

With only (2) holes, this system will not work. Splitting those two holes between two boxes makes things even trickier. Your only safe option is a Durso or stockman in each box. Flow rate? Maybe 300GPH each before noise becomes an issue.

Yes, I figured that.
So, why not drill another hole in the back of one of boxes for a full siphon pipe, or could I do that for both boxes? Set the existing internal pipes to a wet, or one as an emergency overflow, or a fourth emergency?
Step to 1-1/4 pipe.

If I did this could I bring the two siphons to one exit with a valve? Or will they not work together?

Other suggestions for two internal drain boxes?

 

[XStroX]

Without an elbow at the top the siphon standpipe will easily draw a vortex from the surface. This will reduce flow, cause noise, and inject bubbles into the sump.

Without an elbow at the top the sound from the water falling through the standpipe will be much more audible. The other side effect is how the standpipe kicks in during fail-safe operation as a full siphon.

The emergency standpipe can be open top without an elbow.

At very low flow (400 GPH) the three standpipes setup as dursos should prove to be rather quiet.


Lastly: It sounds like you want to run these standpipes without using an overflow box. You will get no surface skimming and that is not a good idea for a reef tank or fo tank.

Thank you Bean! I'm using in internal overflow, 3 sided, top to bottom of the tank. Trying to keep everything internal wiring and pipe wise to please the wife. I'll go with your system that way whether I want low flow or higher flow, it will work regardless.

 

[FuzzyZipperbaum]

Yes with a long drop like that, the valve should be near the discharge to prevent cavitation. Are you feeding the skimmer directly? While this may work as planned, it may also make the system (both the balance point of the siphon and the skimmer water level) unstable. I am not saying it will not work, but there are a lot of variables that come into play as the head in the tank and the skimmer interact.

The longer the drop into the overflow box, the more chance there is for watefall noise and/or creating bubbles that will get sucked into the standpipes (more possible noise).

Thanks BEAN.... Do you have thoughts on these....

also it was mentioned to "lean" the open flow pipe....can you guys give me a bit more color on what lean means...

Lastly.... How much of a drop for water over the overflow into the overflow box do you want to start the pipes.... Put another way....Can the pipes be set say 6" below the overflow....I have some clearance problems on top of the overflow box....I want to keep the top of the pipes under them.....

 

[FuzzyZipperbaum]

This is where I am at so far...haven't added the air line yet....

Bottom of siphon line is 3" below the water overflow opening....

 

[Cymonous]

I have a corner overflow for my new 65g. It has one 3/4 OD drain. The drain has no special plumbing except a straight pipe glued into the bulkhead to a coupler to another piece of PVC to another coupler I added to increase the water level. It also has a tube shaped cage inside the coupler to trap some stuff in the water. The drain is quite loud. I was wondering if anyone had any suggested ideas on what to add or change to make it more quiet?

 

[saltines]

Newb here, Forgive me for being confused but Im planning on running this set up on my 180g tank with a 40g sump. I plan to run it with an internal (shortened version) coast to coast with room for returns on the sides as a reefer did here >

.
I have several questions i hope i can get answered before i do any drilling.

I know on beans website he stated -I worked with the 1" bulkheads that I had, but larger bulkheads are perfectly suitable. He also stated-The rounded backs of the elbows and the large surface area of the intakes help prevent the vortex from forming.
1a.Would It benefit or hurt me if i used 1.5inch bulkheads or would i have to use 1 inch bulkheads as in the original diagram.

If its beneficial to go with 1.5 inch bulkheads,
1b.Would using full curved 90 degree elbows on the intakes as opposed to regular 90 degree elbows be of any benefit. Im assuming if i stayed with 1inch bulkhead design the street elbows flow better/have the larger surface area intake than regular 90 elbows

I have seen several posts about having the main siphon bulkhead drilled lower than the open channel standpipe.
2.Is it necessary or do i drill all 3 bulkheads at the same height?

I read a thread about someone accidentally drilling their tank overflow too high and then having no other option but to buy a new tank. I know each distance from the center of the circle being drilled will vary with the size of the circle being drilled. Keeping in mind im either going to drill 1 or 1.5 inch bulkheads
3.What is a safe distance to drill from:
The top edge of the glass to the top edge of the circle
The edge of a circle to the edge of the circle adjacent to it
My plan was to use a 1200gph pump i have on hand for my returns. This was with regards to my math of running around 900-1000gph with headloss and a 1.5 inch bulkhead draining around 850 gph.
4.Would this pump work with my setup?according to me it will but im a noob. I was thinking the main siphon would flow up to 800gph and i could adjust the open channel to handle the rest?