BeanAnimal
Premium Member
It really matters little in this application 
Just remember to use a high grade silicone sealant, not the stuff from lowes.
Just remember to use a high grade silicone sealant, not the stuff from lowes.
Silent and Failsafe Overflow System
- Thread starter JohnL
- Start date
uncleof6
Active member
the arrangement of the glass panels is strictly a matter of aesthetics. In this application, there is no particular advantage, one over the other.
It really matters little in this application
Just remember to use a high grade silicone sealant, not the stuff from lowes.
thanks uncle and bean! i was planning on using momentive rtv. i just want to build it correctly and i noticed now, looking around at tank builds, that most dont set anything on the bottom piece.
another quick question... i plan on making the full siphon and emergency 1" pipes and fittings and the open channel 1.25". is there any advantage to make the fittings for the open channel 1.25" rather than 1"? i am using 1" bulkheads.
pfoxgrover
New member
Cableguy88
Can you describe the startup one step at a time with a little more detail?
Can you describe the continuous air sucking extravaganza better?
What do you mean by pulling the air line out?
I'm sure one of the experts will chime in and help you out.
heatdissipation
New member
So uncleofsix said my pump was undersized for my setup, I agree with him after some research, I was using a mag 24 on my 265 g with about six ft of head pressure. I bought a dolphin ampmaster 5740 today. Won't be here till next week but do you think I made a good decision. Not a lot of reviews for that pump, but all seemed to be good reviews. It has type 3 seals on it.
KindCorals
New member
Very good to know. There will be a 20-22" drop then 45's leading into the sump, hopefully that will be fine.
Thanks again for the help
BeanAnimal
Premium Member
You lost me... with the "pulled the airline out"
The "adjustable" standpipe (the only one that NEEDS) a valve is the SIPHON standpipe and it does NOT have an air line.
The standpipe with the airline is the OPEN CHANNEL standpipe and if it does have a valve, the valve should be fully open.
Can you confirm that this is the way you have things setup? Photos?
Looking for some advice. Just starting to build my first reef setup from a used 125g glass tank, 48x24x24. I've been pouring over threads for the last few months and have determined the BA overflow system to be the best choice. What I'd like to do is an acrylic internal overflow in black, approximately 36"x3.5"x6" or so, haven't finalized measurements. I'm thinking I'll have a local acrylic builder build me this box with an open top as well as the 3 holes for plumbing aligned with the holes that will be in the back of the glass tank. My concern is the sealing of this setup, as glass and acrylic don't adhere well with many products. One thought is to just use plenty of silicone on the back sandwiched between the glass tank and the acrylic overflow box. Another thought would be to not worry about silicone, and to use a bulkhead gasket on the inside AND the outside of the tank. Any thoughts?
Why not just use glass, eliminate the bonding issue?
True, glass would definitely eliminate the bonding issue and be a DIY project I think I would be capable of. However, what I'm going for is a clean, all-black look, as I also plan to paint the back of the aquarium. My personal preference is to hide as much of the plumbing as possible. There is of course the argument that over time as coralline algae builds up, it will block the view anyways. Another thought I had was to use glass and paint it with black Krylon fusion, but I know there is differing opinions about it being reef safe.
BeanAnimal
Premium Member
An external acrylic overflow on a glass tank is really a DIY friendly project and not something I would consider safe. You can get very dark glass if you that is what you desire.
As for Kyrlon Fusion, it is complete and utter garbage, as are MOST paints that relied on solvents to do their job. Fusion had solvent in it that helped to "melt" the coating (solvent weld it) to the surface. Many states have adpoted silly VOC laws that have forced paint, glue and coatings manufacturers to reformulate their products with acrylics instead of hydrocarbons. They are ALL garbage. Some companies produce 2 version of each product depending on where it will be sold and others don't spend the money and only produce the new low VOC product for ALL states. Most (99%) of the consumers are oblivous so there is no outcry.
Anyway.... kyrlon fusion is not suitable for painting the "wet" side of the glass.
As for Kyrlon Fusion, it is complete and utter garbage, as are MOST paints that relied on solvents to do their job. Fusion had solvent in it that helped to "melt" the coating (solvent weld it) to the surface. Many states have adpoted silly VOC laws that have forced paint, glue and coatings manufacturers to reformulate their products with acrylics instead of hydrocarbons. They are ALL garbage. Some companies produce 2 version of each product depending on where it will be sold and others don't spend the money and only produce the new low VOC product for ALL states. Most (99%) of the consumers are oblivous so there is no outcry.
Anyway.... kyrlon fusion is not suitable for painting the "wet" side of the glass.
uncleof6
Active member
While you are at it, cut the pipes off so they do not terminate more than 1" below the water surface in the sump. That will most likely cure your starting issue. As "designed" has the drain outlets less than 1" below the water level. More than that, makes it more difficult for the air to be purged from the line. Most of the time, (if not all the time) starting issues are due to not following the design guidlines.
PL-Reef
Awesome Member
I haven't had the time to read all 233 pages so I'm not sure if it's been answered or not. Does anyone see a reason why this overflow system can't be installed the back of a 29 gallon Bio Cube? I'm throwing a few ideas around on what I want to do as far a fuge / sump goes. So deciding on an overflow is key right now.
Firochromis
New member
Newbie here. My apologies if this has been covered however I couldn't find a similar sized tank with peninsula setup. the tank is 550g 84"x36"x42"and is not setup yet. I want to run a mixed reef including some SPS/LPS/soft. I want to convert to coast-to-coast internal overflow across the 36"width w/beananimal. I should be able to accommodate upto 36" for the vertical drop.
I am trying to determine what size holes and pipe to size for? 1.5", 2" or ???
My estimates are I should run x20 flow(5x550=11000gph), 5x thru the sump (5x550=2750gph), 6x thru 150g fuge (6x150=900gph), and the rest (7350gph) thru internal flow (ie.vortech Mp60's). Am I correct in thinking I need to account for 2750gph+900gph=3650gph thru the siphon?
Max flow rate for 2" pvc Hence the need for 2" ?
I did find some info which states a 2" vertical pvc pipe w/gravitational flow max's out at 2400gph?
and one last ? for this setup is there any specific size recommendations for the overflow box? I was thinking 7"h x 6"w
Thank you in advance
Shane
I am trying to determine what size holes and pipe to size for? 1.5", 2" or ???
My estimates are I should run x20 flow(5x550=11000gph), 5x thru the sump (5x550=2750gph), 6x thru 150g fuge (6x150=900gph), and the rest (7350gph) thru internal flow (ie.vortech Mp60's). Am I correct in thinking I need to account for 2750gph+900gph=3650gph thru the siphon?
Max flow rate for 2" pvc Hence the need for 2" ?
I did find some info which states a 2" vertical pvc pipe w/gravitational flow max's out at 2400gph?
and one last ? for this setup is there any specific size recommendations for the overflow box? I was thinking 7"h x 6"w
Thank you in advance
Shane
uncleof6
Active member
It is far simpler than that. Well, most would have you think that it is complicated. Run 10x through the sump e.g. 5500 gph, and makes sure there are no dead spots in the DT with thoughtful placment and testing with your vortechs--and call it a day. Rules of thumb for this and that make little sense, and have no basis in research results. Even the 10x I mentioned could be challanged, and replaced by 20x through the sump if you really wanted too.....flow in gph within the main tank is really a pointless thought--and after thought, maybe figuring out what the water movement really does in the display tank, the rate in gph becomes even more pointless 
The main pump is the heart of the system, circulation within the tank gets the water to every crook and nanny. Turnover rates, which are what the "rules of thumb" cover, acutally relate to water in/water out, not moving around in the tank. Water moving around the tank does nothing, unless that water is sent to the sump via a surface skimmer.
The lost part of this is what the powerheads are really for. Since water returns and is removed from the top of the tank, a method for moving water to the bottom of the tank is needed. Thus the need for power heads, to keep the water well mixed. Were these systems run the "traditional" fashion e.g. out the bottom and in the top, or vice versa, the use of power heads would be moot.
All put rather simply...
As for plumbing, where did you obtain the max flow rate for 2" pipe? With a 24" drop, 2" will do 6666.67 (max theoretical without pipe/friction loss.) @ 36" that number jumps to 8166 gph. I would think with an average drop, even with the friction loss in the pipe 2" will do fine for 5500 gph, 2.5" if you feel skeptical. (bean has a calculator based on Bernoulli's equation on his website.) 1.5" would be too small for this.
Return pump and plumbing is going to be a much more complex issue.
The overflow box dims can be figured out by measuring your plumbing/fittings, and calculating box depths and widths that allow access to the elbows, keep the down turned elbows submerged, and a total height that keeps the drop into the box around an inch or so.
The main pump is the heart of the system, circulation within the tank gets the water to every crook and nanny. Turnover rates, which are what the "rules of thumb" cover, acutally relate to water in/water out, not moving around in the tank. Water moving around the tank does nothing, unless that water is sent to the sump via a surface skimmer.
The lost part of this is what the powerheads are really for. Since water returns and is removed from the top of the tank, a method for moving water to the bottom of the tank is needed. Thus the need for power heads, to keep the water well mixed. Were these systems run the "traditional" fashion e.g. out the bottom and in the top, or vice versa, the use of power heads would be moot.
All put rather simply...
As for plumbing, where did you obtain the max flow rate for 2" pipe? With a 24" drop, 2" will do 6666.67 (max theoretical without pipe/friction loss.) @ 36" that number jumps to 8166 gph. I would think with an average drop, even with the friction loss in the pipe 2" will do fine for 5500 gph, 2.5" if you feel skeptical. (bean has a calculator based on Bernoulli's equation on his website.) 1.5" would be too small for this.
Return pump and plumbing is going to be a much more complex issue.
The overflow box dims can be figured out by measuring your plumbing/fittings, and calculating box depths and widths that allow access to the elbows, keep the down turned elbows submerged, and a total height that keeps the drop into the box around an inch or so.
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