Silent and Failsafe Overflow System

[smb2415]

UNCLE - thank you

2" pipes it is.

a little off topic but:

beananimal feeds to sump. then from there
For the return I'm thinking (2) speedwave 10000.
(1) to pump to fuge flowing back to tank using (2) 1"
(1) sump/skimmer flowing out to (1) 1.5" tee'd into (3) 1"

I am also giving thought to repurposing a few old holes from the standard overflow as a closed loop... maybe use 2 one pointing down each length of the tank.

 

[uncleof6]

The speedwave 10000s (DC10000) are going to come up short on this one. By the time you subtract the friction loss, you will be down below 5000 gph. If you REALLY want to run two pumps, the RLSS DC12000s will do the trick (same pumps with higher gph rating... I sleep for a couple of weeks and everything changes....)

Ultimately however, you would be better off running a single pump such as a hammerhead from reeflo. Our thinking needs to change when it comes to large tanks.....

I don't place any stock in closed loops, too static and don't do that well of a job according to dye tests. Power heads is where it is at: flexibility and a single vortech can keep up with many of the larger pumps, with less running cost....

 

[BeanAnimal]

Some side note that may help:

My reeflo snapper siezed last week... I replaced it with a Dart hybrid, doubling the flow through the sump (and the display). All I can say is that both the corals and the fish are extremely happy. I have large blue-ridge coral that has never had ANY polyp extension... it is now "fuzzy". It has been maybe 4 years since I have had that much return flow...

The dart will be replaced (165 loud watts) with the new Waveline as soon as I can get my grubby mits on one.

While I agree that the stream pumps are awesome, they have no place in my tiny 75G tank. I hate to see powerheads! So my only option is a larger return pump and a large closed loop pump. If I were doing a 550, then I would rely heavily on the ecotechs or whatever for the bulk of the flow in the display.

Rules of thumb for flow... they are pretty silly. The bottom line is that (almost without limit) higher flow is better. I mean you don't want to launch your blue damsel from the tank on a jet of water or tear the flesh from your coral...

Return pump for the 500? the hammerhead would be great. I would also consider using 1 or two smaller DC12000 pumps and a lot of in-tank flow. While the single DC12000 (or similar) will not provide as much sump throughput as I like, others will argue (and can demonstrate) extremely healthy systems with low flow sump loops. There are many variables, including the size of the sump, skimmer, sump contents, etc.

My small tank is very heavily stocked and I have a lot of LR in my sump. I prefer to view my sump as an extension of the display tank that increases the system volume and live filtration, thus the high flow.

 

[BeanAnimal]

As I understand the system, main flow is go through siphon line and if it blocked for some reason Durso and Emergency lines kicks in.

The open channel (durso) pipe takes a small percentage of the flow during normal operation. This is what allows the system to be stable. You do not need to find the perfect balance point for the siphon, as the open channel acts as a compensator.

The system is so silent that, assuming it's well designed in terms of pipe diameters and return pump, aquarist will never now which line is operational at the moment.

Pretty much.

So I want to use some sort of control sensors in Siphon and Emergency line to notice that some lines are blocked. Yes, I'll use water sensors around the aquarium to receive an alarm in case of flood, but since I have the opportunity I want to use sensors for the lines.

Emergency line seems the easy one. There are several water sensors to use in kitchens against flood. When they sense water send a signal to alarm system. So I'm considering to put a "wet sensor" to the output of the emergency line. If I can find a small one, I can even put it inside the line.

As an electronics hobbyist, I understand the desire to automate and sense things... That said, I don't see the need here

Depending on system setup and pump size, the emergency drain may kick in for a short time on system startup.

For the Siphon line I thought some sort of flow meter. It should send a signal either when the flow stops or if it's a high-tech one, when the flow reduced a preset value. The problem is I couldn't find any sensors for this application.

There are all types of flow sensors that would be suitable, but they all cost a lot of money...

If you are really set on "sensing" something, then adding low pressure transducers to the caps of the standpipes, and/or near the discharges would give you cryptic, yet meaningful data. Once you deciphered the readings at different operating states you could use the pressure data to give a real-time status of the standpipes.

Worth the trouble? I don't think so, but I am not you

Any suggestions for my plans?[/QUOTE]

 

[ReefDVMs]

Wow what a thread, so much knowledge available on this in just one place, my congrats to BeanAnimal for all the help you have given people.

We have personally used this overflow multiple times on tanks from 30gallons up to 150gallons and have had great success. With that said we have decided to use the system on a tank that we are building where its separated from the sump by a floor or head height of 14 feet. The system is in place and we are plumbing soon but we are wondering it one can take the gates valves (middle pipe one of course the most important one) and place them at the sump end or will that cause an issue? Hence we need to keep them upstairs just below the beananimal like is done normally? Having them in the basement with the sump frees up valuable space if its do able.

 

[rocking]

bean i need info on good pumps to use with my 75 with closed loop system ?

 

[BeanAnimal]

With that said we have decided to use the system on a tank that we are building where its separated from the sump by a floor or head height of 14 feet. The system is in place and we are plumbing soon but we are wondering it one can take the gates valves (middle pipe one of course the most important one) and place them at the sump end or will that cause an issue? Hence we need to keep them upstairs just below the beananimal like is done normally? Having them in the basement with the sump frees up valuable space if its do able.

In this case, the regulation valve MUST be at the sump, otherwise the siphon standpipe is almost sure to cavitate due to the distance of the drop.

The open channel standpipe may need to be leaned to the side slightly to ensure that the water fllows down the wall and does not drop staight through the center.

 

[rocking]

maybe i need to get more info on here for the help i need !
i have a 75g tank using a 1.5 down pipes all way thro.set up with your systom
with 2 sea swreals and a tigger 36 ellet cristal sump that lets me set the flow in the fuge! the fuge i want to set at 200 gph .i also have a 1/3 horse chill that needs 800gph to go thro it and i have a two little fish set up with gfo that needs 160 gph thro it . i would realy like to use one pump to do everything ! max lift will be 7 feet

 

[BeanAnimal]

bean i need info on good pumps to use with my 75 with closed loop system ?

I have been fairly pleased with the Waveline pump from RLSS and it is my understanding that the issues with the first generation have been fixed. The volute was somewhat thin and some folks had issues with the seal as well as bad NPT threads on the discharge.

 

[smb2415]

BEAN / UNCLE - thank you for your help!! I will be utilizing both of your feedbacks in my build.

 

[Slawdude]

Some side note that may help:

My reeflo snapper siezed last week... I replaced it with a Dart hybrid, doubling the flow through the sump (and the display). All I can say is that both the corals and the fish are extremely happy. I have large blue-ridge coral that has never had ANY polyp extension... it is now "fuzzy". It has been maybe 4 years since I have had that much return flow...

That is interesting? Do you have any thoughts as to why your coral would extend due to increased sump throughput?

 

[BeanAnimal]

I would not attribute the coral's new found happiness to the sump throughput, but rather simply the increased (double) the flow in the display.

 

[CJBROWN]

2 drain boxes, 1" pipe - Help!!

2 drain boxes, 1" pipe - Help!!

I had this all figured out when I built my 75 gallon reef with an external drainbox and a bean setup. It works perfectly and is silent. Happily humming along for the past couple years.

Now I've inherited a 110gl I want to set up for FOLR and it has 2 internal drain boxes with 1" bottom drains. What is the recommended setup?
I plan to run a 1000 to 1200gph sump pump, with additional circulation with power heads.

Will just running elbows at the tops of the two boxes be noisy? It came with slotted stand pipes but those have got to be noisy.

It also came with a pretty elaborate trickle filter sump with bioballs and was thinking about going ahead and using it with just fish, add a big protien skimmer.

I guess I can set it up in the garage and test run it.

Just looking for suggestions here.

As always, great thread!

 

[rocking]

well been i figurd out my pump it will get my tank at 36.66 times a hour 2750 gph useing one pump and 5 Squid—Wavemakers for meany curnts and 2 sea swrils

 

[Tenfoothead]

I'm currently in the process of designing my first SW tank, a 210G in-wall build. I've been thinking about incorporating 2 conical settling tanks into my design to help remove detritus and permit speedy water changes (with a valve that switches from one conical tank with dirty water to a second tank with new clean SW). I'd like to use a bean overflow but was wondering if there would be problems associated with trying to direct it to multiple tanks. I was thinking perhaps routing the main overflow drain to a split valve that would direct it to the two conical tanks and have the 2nd and emergency drain going straight to the sump with the skimmer. I'm making the assumption that most of the flow is through the first drain therefore this doesn't really reduce the effectiveness of the settling tanks too much. Does anyone know if routing the drains to different locations will have an effect on the operation of the overflow?

 

[joefitz]

Is it possible to use different size drain pipes?

My tank has 5 holes...three 1.5" and two. 2". Currently, one 1.5 feeds the tank from the return pump in the basement, the other two feed a closed loop pump (amp master 3000). The 2" pipes are both drains.

I've never had a ton of luck getting this quiet while being safe...looking to try something new.

If I changed the closed loop plumbing to free up one of the 1.5" pipes, could I use that as my "primary" drain (siphon) and the two 2" pipes as the emergency and "open" drains? Or do all the pipes have to be the same size?

I'd think this would work ok...

Also, my DT drains over 10' to the basement...my understanding is that I need to put a gate valve on/towards the end of the pipe in the basement (rather than up by the overflow)...yes?

And even though I can't imagine a 2" pipe clogging, I still MUST have 3 pipes for the to work reliably/without flooding yes?

 

[Clear water]

New to the site. Trying to get a leemar tank on order. The dimensions will be 48x30x22. I wanted to do a eurobrace on three sides. On the backside of the 48 I wanted to have the glass notched down an 11/2 from the top. This will be my weir that drops the water in the trough of the external overflow. I think it will give the illusion of an infinity pool. Now here is the part I am having trouble with. The back trough or external overflow will be the length of the tank. I wanted to drill the bottom of the trough for my drains. Any thoughts? My thinking was to achieve a clean look and all you see is the top of the caps of the three drains of the BA overflow. By doing it this way I will be able to get the tank close to the wall as possible and not seeing the drains behind the tank as much. If this is designed this way and they are able to manufacture it. What would be the height of the trough? And the width being the bulkheads will be in the bottom. Also I don't want the water coming over the falls to go into the safety drain. Any help or thoughts would be appreciated.
Thanks

 

[jerpa]

Is it possible to use different size drain pipes?

My tank has 5 holes...three 1.5" and two. 2". Currently, one 1.5 feeds the tank from the return pump in the basement, the other two feed a closed loop pump (amp master 3000). The 2" pipes are both drains.

I've never had a ton of luck getting this quiet while being safe...looking to try something new.

If I changed the closed loop plumbing to free up one of the 1.5" pipes, could I use that as my "primary" drain (siphon) and the two 2" pipes as the emergency and "open" drains? Or do all the pipes have to be the same size?

I'd think this would work ok...

Also, my DT drains over 10' to the basement...my understanding is that I need to put a gate valve on/towards the end of the pipe in the basement (rather than up by the overflow)...yes?

And even though I can't imagine a 2" pipe clogging, I still MUST have 3 pipes for the to work reliably/without flooding yes?

You can use different sized drain lines as long as the smallest is your siphon, with the open channel and emergency being larger.

The gate valve should be placed as close to the sump as possible to reduce the risk of cavitation. The standpipe will also have to end just below the water surface to ensure the siphon starts properly.

Yes, you need three drains for this system otherwise you are asking for a flood. You could use a herbie system with two drains but they require more adjustments.

 

[jerpa]

I'm currently in the process of designing my first SW tank, a 210G in-wall build. I've been thinking about incorporating 2 conical settling tanks into my design to help remove detritus and permit speedy water changes (with a valve that switches from one conical tank with dirty water to a second tank with new clean SW). I'd like to use a bean overflow but was wondering if there would be problems associated with trying to direct it to multiple tanks. I was thinking perhaps routing the main overflow drain to a split valve that would direct it to the two conical tanks and have the 2nd and emergency drain going straight to the sump with the skimmer. I'm making the assumption that most of the flow is through the first drain therefore this doesn't really reduce the effectiveness of the settling tanks too much. Does anyone know if routing the drains to different locations will have an effect on the operation of the overflow?

Routing the siphon and open/emergency drains to two different tanks shouldn't be an issue. Splitting the siphon line may be. Assuming the split valve does not interfere with the siphon, keeping in mind you will need an additional valve on each line beyond the split valve, you may need to make an adjustment when switching between settling tanks. The open channel may have a large enough cushion to make this a non-issue though.

You are definitely changing the design so YMMV but assuming the split valve doesn't interfere with the siphon I would think it would work.

 

[Overgrown]

New to the site. Trying to get a leemar tank on order. The dimensions will be 48x30x22. I wanted to do a eurobrace on three sides. On the backside of the 48 I wanted to have the glass notched down an 11/2 from the top. This will be my weir that drops the water in the trough of the external overflow. I think it will give the illusion of an infinity pool. Now here is the part I am having trouble with. The back trough or external overflow will be the length of the tank. I wanted to drill the bottom of the trough for my drains. Any thoughts? My thinking was to achieve a clean look and all you see is the top of the caps of the three drains of the BA overflow. By doing it this way I will be able to get the tank close to the wall as possible and not seeing the drains behind the tank as much. If this is designed this way and they are able to manufacture it. What would be the height of the trough? And the width being the bulkheads will be in the bottom. Also I don't want the water coming over the falls to go into the safety drain. Any help or thoughts would be appreciated.
Thanks

If you're coming through the bottom of the overflow box I'm guessing you'll use inline San Tees coming up from the bulkheads? With 90s attached? Not sure if there is a definitive rule on the width of the coast to coast as long as its not so narrow so as the sheet of water is lipping over the emergency. But I'm sure Bean or Uncle will chime in.. those are the two you want to listen to. I like the notch down idea though