Silent and Failsafe Overflow System

[Imtryinghere]

I know ive seen it here before and really don't wanna look through all the pages yet again. if I use all one inch and one inch lines to sump is that larget enough for around 1700gph. I will be running from upstairs 13 foot drop to sump using spa flex. If im not mistaken it was 1900 gph max through 1 inch with 4 foot drop.

 

[uncleof6]

Yeah it will do it. Would I do it? Nope. I would bump it to 1.5", if for no other reason than less of a plug risk...however, with 13' of line, that wonderful long drop will be reduced significantly by the friction losses in 1" pipe.

 

[Imtryinghere]

holes are 1 inch..

holes are 1 inch..

Yeah it will do it. Would I do it? Nope. I would bump it to 1.5", if for no other reason than less of a plug risk...however, with 13' of line, that wonderful long drop will be reduced significantly by the friction losses in 1" pipe.

Well this is quite the dilemma. The tank currently has 2 1" and 1 2" bulkheads in the bottom of the overflow. I was going to use one of the 1 inch as the main siphon and 2 inch line reduced to 1 inch for the second spout. (could make this 1.5 inches off the bulhead) and the last 1 inch for emergency. I am going to come up over the back with the returns just so I can use bean animal overflow.

Im still waiting for silicon to dry since I resealed a new to me 240 gallon so there is still time to come up with a game plan. Thank you in advance Uncle.

 

[uncleof6]

Just use 1.5" pipe instead of 1"...

 

[NeveSSL]

A chain is only as strong as its weakest link... Same goes for flow and pipe size.

Brandon

 

[uncleof6]

A chain is only as strong as its weakest link... Same goes for flow and pipe size.

Brandon

Yes the flow is limited to the max theoretical flow rate for a 1" bulkhead at the given drop. However, that max theoretical (based on Bernouli's equation) gets reduced by friction losses in the pipes. Larger pipe, results in less friction loss, allowing flow to more closely approach that maximum limit. The weak link is not understanding fluid dynamics.

 

[NeveSSL]

Yes the flow is limited to the max theoretical flow rate for a 1" bulkhead at the given drop. However, that max theoretical (based on Bernouli's equation) gets reduced by friction losses in the pipes. Larger pipe, results in less friction loss, allowing flow to more closely approach that maximum limit. The weak link is not understanding fluid dynamics.

So you're saying that even having 1.5" after the 1" bulkhead will help with overall flow due to less friction loss compared to all 1"?

Brandon

 

[uncleof6]

So you're saying that even having 1.5" after the 1" bulkhead will help with overall flow due to less friction loss compared to all 1"?

Brandon

Yes that is what I am saying.

Friction loss or "drag", lowers the flow rate. Therefore less "drag" equals higher flow rate. In any case however, the flow rate will not exceed, or be equal to, the maximum theoretical flow rate determined by Bernoulli's equation, set by the bulkhead size and length of the drop (not accounting for ambient pressure, viscosity, etc.)

Example (have the numbers memorized):

1" bulkhead, with 24" drop.

Max theoretical (not accounting for friction loss, ambient pressure, etc) is ~1660 gph. In 1" pipe due to friction loss, ~1200 gph would not be unexpected. In 1.5" pipe, 1500 gph would be a reasonable expectation.

With your setup max through a 1" bulkhead @13' is around 4250 gph. This of course, exceeds any recommended flow rates (above 18f/s) for 1" pipe: 12f/s for minimal perssure loss and noise. (2220 gph.) However for gravity alone, 960 gph is the point, where friction loss becomes significant in 1" pipe.

You have room to play with. 1" will do the job *most likely* however, your target flow rate is getting close to 12f/s, and that is a lot of 1" pipe for something to get stuck in...the FOD might make it through the bulkhead, but get stuck on the growth/buildup inside the piping.

 

[NeveSSL]

I believe you've confused me with the original poster... I have a Ghost overflow with 3 1.5" drains. I was just making sure I understood your point.

Thanks,

Brandon

 

[SGT_York]

IMtryinghere,

Easy to go 1" siphon and emergency with a 2" open channel for the bulkheads.

NeveSSL,

For the pipe size how much of a horizontal run will you have? and what will the minimum slope be?

1.5" will have less friction loss, but will have an increased siphon start time over 1" pipe especially if you have a large horizontal run. too much of a run and it may not start at all.

 

[uncleof6]

I believe you've confused me with the original poster... I have a Ghost overflow with 3 1.5" drains. I was just making sure I understood your point.

Thanks,

Brandon

Often if it is not clear to one, it is not clear to many, including those with little to no direct experience, and the poster making the original inquiry. Kill two birds with one stone.

Like now for instance: I need to reiterate that the drain system works, and works great, as designed. As designed, includes 1" bulkheads and 1.5" pipe. The themes of this thread is "one size fits all," and the only guarantee is that it works as designed. It is a constant struggle to keep the information consistant, factual, and experience based. I leave the rest to be deduced by inference.

 

[NeveSSL]

Fair enough.

Brandon

 

[jncasey]

What seems to be the general consensus on reinforcing drain lines as to alleviate forces applied to the bulkheads? I'm not a fan of letting the pipes 'hang' from the bulkheads.....a simple wooden board with three 1.5" hole drilled and attached to the stand would suffice.....trying to think of something more aesthetically pleasing.

Do most reefers let their return line hang on the rim of the tank (up & over method)?

After months of research I'm finally ready to plumb my setup Friday along with sump, skimmer, ATI T-5 dimmable fixture, MP-40's, rock, sand, etc...

 

[RockyMtnReef]

This may be the most informative thread ever on RC. Just a quick thank you.

 

[saf1]

Quick question I hope

Would the Bean-animal design support a sudden surge of water? Or is this more of a issue does the tank have enough capacity to handle it?

I've been toying with the idea of adding a surge device within my current plans to remove some of the power heads.

 

[Mrramsey]

Thought I'd post a quick YouTube video of my current BA Build
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xuBk_DR7t6I&feature=youtube_gdata_player

 

[uncleof6]

Quick question I hope

Would the Bean-animal design support a sudden surge of water? Or is this more of a issue does the tank have enough capacity to handle it?

I've been toying with the idea of adding a surge device within my current plans to remove some of the power heads.

Of course it would affect the drains. As soon as the flow over the weir changes, the drains will have to readjust, and then readjust again after the surge. The siphon could easily break, the open channel trip to siphon, in other words it would be rather unpredictable. If the surge did not affect the flow over the weir, it would not affect the drains.

I don't find "surge devices" to be an adequate replacement for power heads either. The surge is generally lateral, but to duplicate nature, the surge needs to be vertical, as the surge on the reefs is vertical (circular actually,) not lateral. All these surge devices do not do much of anything other than place a strain on the seams of the tank.

 

[saf1]

Of course it would affect the drains. As soon as the flow over the weir changes, the drains will have to readjust, and then readjust again after the surge. The siphon could easily break, the open channel trip to siphon, in other words it would be rather unpredictable. If the surge did not affect the flow over the weir, it would not affect the drains.

I don't find "surge devices" to be an adequate replacement for power heads either. The surge is generally lateral, but to duplicate nature, the surge needs to be vertical, as the surge on the reefs is vertical (circular actually,) not lateral. All these surge devices do not do much of anything other than place a strain on the seams of the tank.

Thank you. I never really thought about the tank or seams. That actually makes a ton of sense.

 

[saf1]

One more question. While I believe it would work, and several have done it I believe in this thread, is the Bean Animal over-kill for a 40 gallon? I may be combining two 29 gallon tanks for a bit and may try this.

I would guess everything is the same in regards to piping size but the limit is my return rate.

Oh, one more thing I guess. PVC is pretty standard but is there any difference between unions or other adjustable flow (red handle knobs to adjust flow) pieces? Or do most people just buy them online compared to your local box store.

 

[uncleof6]

One more question. While I believe it would work, and several have done it I believe in this thread, is the Bean Animal over-kill for a 40 gallon? I may be combining two 29 gallon tanks for a bit and may try this.

I would guess everything is the same in regards to piping size but the limit is my return rate.

Oh, one more thing I guess. PVC is pretty standard but is there any difference between unions or other adjustable flow (red handle knobs to adjust flow) pieces? Or do most people just buy them online compared to your local box store.

Functionality really does not have size constraints. One of the themes of this design is a "one size fits all" solution, to a very old problem. So I would not call it overkill, rather better functionality.

In a nutshell, no not all pvc fittings, valves, etc. are created equal. Price usually is proportional to quality.