Silent and Failsafe Overflow System

hbash said:
I don't think I suggested I wanted to increase the size of the air line. You provided me with three links which I assumed were for the correct sizes: the tapper, the drill bit and the valve:

At H20 the valve is "John Guest® 1/4" x 3/8" NPTF Male Connector (Acetal)"
At McMaster the tapper is "Tap For Pipe Threads, Light-use, 3/8 Npt Pipe Size, 18 Threads Per Inch"
and the bit is "Drill Bit For Plastics, 9/16", 6" O'all Length, 2.1" Drill Depth"

I hope you're not telling me that these are not what is suggested. It just appears that the fitting for the 1/4" air tube must be larger. I noticed that the one I had (from US Plastics) has a narrow threaded part, so I am assuming that this one (from McMaster as per link) has the thread size nearly if not exactly the same diameter as the barrel that the JG 1/4" comes out of explaining the increases in the sizes of the tap and the bit (also as per provided links).
Click to expand...

Per the instructions provided for this drain system, by BeanAnimal, the JG fitting called for is a 1/4" tube x 3/8" NPT. I stated I can't see any reason to go larger than 1/4" (since JG fittings are just about all 1/4" tube x something, the 1/4" I mentioned referred to 1/4" NPT. 3/8" NPT being a bit of overkill. The fitting you started with was 1/4" tube x 1/8" NPTF obviously, the wrong part... as it has a "weird" method of sealing. In the grand scheme of things, the part I linked you to is the correct part, a 1/4" tube x 1/4" NPT would also be the correct part...e.g. is simply does not matter....
 
For reference on the fitting and tap and bit:

Fitting you want post - 7275

Associated Tap and bit post - 7290
 
Note the parts callout at the top of the standpipe: the tubing size, and the size spec of the fitting:



exploded-standpipe_zps7a33518a.jpg


Questions yet?
 
That is exactly what the URL you gave me and the part I ordered is described as. Not sure what the issue is other than I thought that this part is bigger than the one I bought in error. They appear to only differ in the thread diameters and therefore the taps and bits.

The three URLS (which you supplied) point me at the part which matches this figure. They are the items I purchased for this application.

The only question is, why the questions when I indeed picked up the parts as you specified. Thanks.
 
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hbash said:
That is exactly what the URL you gave me and the part I ordered is described as. Not sure what the issue is other than I thought that this part is bigger than the one I bought in error. They appear to only differ in the thread diameters and therefore the taps and bits.

The three URLS (which you supplied) point me at the part which matches this figure. They are the items I purchased for this application.

The only question is, why the questions when I indeed picked up the parts as you specified. Thanks.
Click to expand...


This question: "Did I not tell you, that I saw no reason to go larger than 1/4" is in response to you saying "that is huge compared to...." other than that, there is no puprose to the question, it is rhetorical.
 
Other than not sending me a link to a 1/4" x 1/4" set (fitting, tap and bit) and you instead sending me links to 1/4" x 3/8" components and pointing me at the beananimal document as gospel where the figure listed the part as 1/4" x 3/8", no questions here...

That I made a rhetorical comment and we went off about that, that I cannot answer as that was a two way discourse, yes? I merely was observing a relatively large size difference nothing more.

Thank you sir.
 
Be nice folks... it doesn't cost anything :)

hbash (et al.)

Gospel? No..

There are hundreds of pages in this thread and thousands of questions. Uncle does not pray upon the alter of the standpipe God with my overflow drawings in his hands. Instead, he insists that if he (we) are going to try and help you (collective) that you (collective) follow the plans as published. It is not that the plans are unalterable, it is that (given the volume of questions and number of variables) supporting deviations to the plans becomes extremely time consuming and in many cases frustrating for both the mentor and the student.

Happy Reefing...
 
Great Stuff and Mostly Great Advice

Great Stuff and Mostly Great Advice

Greetings sir. I apologize for my sarcasm. I rarely let differences in dialog get me so bent out of shape.
 
HI All.

Something I have not seen addressed in this thread or similar:
I have an oceanic 156 w/ dual overflows - 4 holes total between the two overflows.

I am thinking about removing the two overflow boxes, fabricating an acrylic internal coast to coast overflow, taking 4 1" pipes (w/ bulkheads) to 4 holes drilled in the internal coast to coast (w/ bulkheads) and putting all of the plumbing for the beananimal inside the coast to coast (no plumbing for overflows will be out the back of the tank). The 4th pipe will simply be capped at the bulkhead.

The valves for the full siphon and the other will be under the tank in the stand.

Besides the aesthetics of having exposed pipe inside the tank - are there any drawbacks to this? Being pretty much a straight shot down till I get under the tank and have to angle it to the sump - would water fall noise be an issue?
 
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First problem I see is placing the pipe between the bulkheads at the overflow bottom and the bulkheads in the tank floor...... I can't visualize the process of connection there
 
Bjanzen said:
First problem I see is placing the pipe between the bulkheads at the overflow bottom and the bulkheads in the tank floor...... I can't visualize the process of connection there
Click to expand...

The acrylic internal overflow will not be glued or siliconed in initially. this will allow me to place the acrylic box (w/ Bulkheads) on top of the pipes that have been glued into the tank floor bulk heads.
 
I don't care for this concept. Functionally it is not going to make a difference. But assembly as you describe will not make for very good solvent welds, and for your size tank, you should be considering 1.5" pipe on the 1" bulkheads. That is a functional factor.

If the tank is not already bottom drilled as required, and it is likely (considering the off sizing of the tank) that the bottom panel is tempered, you probably cannot add any holes. Aside from that, as Bjanzen pointed out, any leaks, and the tank drains completely. This makes bottom drilled tanks (except in the case of full height overflows) a fairly risking endeavor.

Many folks want to slam the tank against the wall, so back plumbing the tank is "inconvenient," but tanks should not be that close to the wall either way, and should be spaced from the wall by several inches, which is about what you get with a back plumbed tank. This is for ventilation and accesibility.
 
Thanks Uncleof6 - that's what I was thinking as well when it comes to the 1" versus 1.5" - everything will be 1.5" except for the bottom tank 1" bulk heads - I'll use a 1" to 1.5" adapter there.

Any leaks with dual internal overflows versus the internal coast to coast that I was thinking about is still going to drain the tank considerably if not completely (depends when the pump shuts off - right?) - so there is always risk with a bottom drilled tank no matter how you look at it. Sure - a bulkhead failure with this design means everything drains versus what's just in the overflow (after you shut the pump down) - people run the same risk when they plumb up closed loops.

As for solvent welding - that can be overcome as well (I'm assuming your speaking of the twisting motion that's recommend for proper distribution and seating) - either by two methods I can think of: 1 is weld the pipe to the bottom bulkhead - the acrylic internal overflow will not need welded - if any water leaks from this connection - it'll only be back inside the tank. If you insist the coast to coast needs bulkhead needs welded to the pipe then we wouldn't get the twisting action on the pipe.
2 - the other idea was to use threaded pipe and threaded bulkheads with Teflon pipe dope.

Also wasn't looking to be tight against the wall - I'm planning on leaving room for my return plumbing (which will be done over the top with sea swirls) and for maintenance and ventilation.
 
Ted_C said:
Thanks Uncleof6 - that's what I was thinking as well when it comes to the 1" versus 1.5" - everything will be 1.5" except for the bottom tank 1" bulk heads - I'll use a 1" to 1.5" adapter there.

Any leaks with dual internal overflows versus the internal coast to coast that I was thinking about is still going to drain the tank considerably if not completely (depends when the pump shuts off - right?) - so there is always risk with a bottom drilled tank no matter how you look at it. Sure - a bulkhead failure with this design means everything drains versus what's just in the overflow (after you shut the pump down) - people run the same risk when they plumb up closed loops.
Click to expand...

No, not really. A corner overflow is sealed all the way to the bottom of the tank, a C2C at the top is sealed to the back and ends of the tank. With a C2C with leaky plumbing, you loose the few inches of water in the overflow, nothing from the tank gets in. As the water level in the system in general lowers, the water in the return section will drop, and the pump burns out and water stops flowing into the overflow. The water level in the tank will be even with the top of the weir. You will loose all the water out of the bottom of the tank with a leak in plumbing such as your want, as it will continue to flow out even after the pump burns out/shuts down. Corner over flow, is the same thing. You have to sit and think about this for a while, because what you are describing is a "false impression."

As for solvent welding - that can be overcome as well (I'm assuming your speaking of the twisting motion that's recommend for proper distribution and seating) - either by two methods I can think of: 1 is weld the pipe to the bottom bulkhead - the acrylic internal overflow will not need welded - if any water leaks from this connection - it'll only be back inside the tank. If you insist the coast to coast needs bulkhead needs welded to the pipe then we wouldn't get the twisting action on the pipe.
2 - the other idea was to use threaded pipe and threaded bulkheads with Teflon pipe dope.
Click to expand...

Non-hardening thread sealant. Teflon pipe dope is not the same thing.
Zero margin for error....

Also wasn't looking to be tight against the wall - I'm planning on leaving room for my return plumbing (which will be done over the top with sea swirls) and for maintenance and ventilation.
Click to expand...

Just covering the bases.
 
I am wondering about the elbows on the standpipes. I see them with notches cut into them (sometimes) and wonder if I should or need to do the same.

1) If so how and how does that impact the heights of the elbows?
2) I have "heard" that the notches are made with a chop saw. Is that similar or the same as a miter saw?

Thanks in advance.
 
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