Silent and Failsafe Overflow System

[shermanator]

I am wondering about the elbows on the standpipes. I see them with notches cut into them (sometimes) and wonder if I should or need to do the same.

1) If so how and how does that impact the heights of the elbows?
2) I have "heard" that the notches are made with a chop saw. Is that similar or the same as a miter saw?

Thanks in advance.

I've seen posts (well, at least 1) from BeanAnimal saying he no longer recommends the slits (because the benefit isn't worth the risk of cutting yourself).

Before I saw that, I put cuts in the elbows using a table saw. Unless you have a way to stabilize the elbow without holding it whatsoever, I would not use a mitre saw (and yes, a chop saw is a mitre saw -- there might be a functional difference of chop vs mitre where mitre is more general and often includes compound adjustments).

 

[Bjanzen]

One way or another the full siphon line needs some form of strainer to keep fish and snails out of the gate valve. I know gutter cover could be used and the method may vary depending on the space to the floor of the overflow. On my setup I added a small section of pipe to extend the elbow. I took that pipe and cut slots in the band saw. I set the fence to hit center point of the end of the pipe and rotated and made two cuts and rotated again. I used a Dremel to clean up the cuts and it has worked very well. I made it long enough so it sits right on the bottom of the overflow.

 

[hbash]

Clog

Clog

Do you find yourself having to clean out the gunk using that added pipe, though?

 

[uncleof6]

I am wondering about the elbows on the standpipes. I see them with notches cut into them (sometimes) and wonder if I should or need to do the same.

1) If so how and how does that impact the heights of the elbows?
2) I have "heard" that the notches are made with a chop saw. Is that similar or the same as a miter saw?

Thanks in advance.

Your elbows will not be close enough to the bottom of the overflow box, for slots/slits to do any good whatsoever.

As far as the value of them in the first place, or other "screening" of the elbows, well... most often something getting into the standpipes is going to take a wild ride to the sump, and continue to swim happily, once it gets over the dizziness. The possibility for something (critter or otherwise) getting stuck in the drain system (anywhere in the system, not just at the valve) does exist. The system is designed to handle this without more than a little hiccup, and if built as designed it is rather simple to clear. It really is not something folks should get all excited about, as is typically the case.

 

[Bjanzen]

Well..... Uncleof6...... I agree with you but I am very happy I installed the slotted fish trap on the full siphon elbow. Let me explain......

I thought that the elbow was close enough to the bottom and I went without for several months. For the most part all was fine..... However I kept losing fish to the gate valve! I would come in one morning and find the water level higher in the overflow and more water being forced into the open drain. Now I would have to open the gate valve and whoosh...... Out comes the dead fish! Then I have to spend the next hour fiddling with the gate valve to get the flow rate correct. I know there is little chance of anything getting hung in the open or safety drains but even at roughly a 10x turnover rate the gate valve stays more then half way closed and the chance of critters getting sucked in and stuck happened way too many times.

Now since I installed the "screen" I have been happy to say that I haven't had to touch the gate valve since. If something looks off I just pull the elbow off and clean the debris off the fins of the screen and replace it...... No fighting the valve, no worries about the flow rate.... All is good. Each to his own...... But if memory serves me correct I think the original design had a finned elbow touching the bottom of the overflow. I now see the need for it and I am happy I added one to my system

 

[uncleof6]

Well..... Uncleof6...... I agree with you but I am very happy I installed the slotted fish trap on the full siphon elbow. Let me explain......

I thought that the elbow was close enough to the bottom and I went without for several months. For the most part all was fine..... However I kept losing fish to the gate valve! I would come in one morning and find the water level higher in the overflow and more water being forced into the open drain. Now I would have to open the gate valve and whoosh...... Out comes the dead fish! Then I have to spend the next hour fiddling with the gate valve to get the flow rate correct. I know there is little chance of anything getting hung in the open or safety drains but even at roughly a 10x turnover rate the gate valve stays more then half way closed and the chance of critters getting sucked in and stuck happened way too many times.

Now since I installed the "screen" I have been happy to say that I haven't had to touch the gate valve since. If something looks off I just pull the elbow off and clean the debris off the fins of the screen and replace it...... No fighting the valve, no worries about the flow rate.... All is good. Each to his own...... But if memory serves me correct I think the original design had a finned elbow touching the bottom of the overflow. I now see the need for it and I am happy I added one to my system

Well, even though a rather touchy subject, I will touch on it briefly. I rarely see fish up that high up in any of my tanks. Some fish have a rep for "jumping," but I think that the subject is very poorly covered in most venues, and chalked up to "well some fish are jumpers." I think that folks should take a long hard look at why their fish want to get out of the tank. Fish swim in the water, not jump out of it. Some fish are surface feeders, but reef species generally are not, even though the have the "rep" for jumping. I suspect that if it is examined close enough, you (collective) will find they are jumping (or escaping over the overflow) looking for better conditions, due to low water quality. Most probably depressed oxygen levels, which would drive them higher in the tank where oxygen is more plentiful, but dissolved organics are pollutants as well. In tank aggression, and lack of hiding places will drive fish out of the tank as well. IMO, I think folks should stop accepting this "fish behavior" as an "oh well" type of thing.

 

[hbash]

I think some fish are jumpy (bad joke...). For example when I lived in an apartment, whenever my downstairs neighbor would slam his door the Rabbit fish would jump. Personally I think it's kind of random and a spooked fish just bolts and occasionally the trajectory is airborne.

 

[uncleof6]

I think some fish are jumpy (bad joke...). For example when I lived in an apartment, whenever my downstairs neighbor would slam his door the Rabbit fish would jump. Personally I think it's kind of random and a spooked fish just bolts and occasionally the trajectory is airborne.

Fright is listed up towards the top of list, related to aggression. Folks slamming doors around here are most often shown the front door with baggage in hand...

 

[Bjanzen]

Just to refresh my memory I scrolled back to the front of this thread..... I found this diagram...... Lol. It was designed by the BA himself and I am happy to have mine in place.

 

[shermanator]

Just to refresh my memory I scrolled back to the front of this thread..... I found this diagram...... Lol. It was designed by the BA himself and I am happy to have mine in place.

And in posts 682-684 of this thread, BeanAnimal says his personal system doesn't use slits in the 90s.

 

[Bjanzen]

Guess I am behind the times! Hahaha

 

[BeanAnimal]

Not really following along here... but let me see if I can add some context:

I cut slots in the original intake elbows. I fiddled with a dremel and a die grinder and a vice and coping saw and got annoyed with the rough, jagged, uneven, ugly profiles. I ended up using the table saw (if I remember) freehand without a jig. No smart, to say the least.

My original overflow implementation was open top with no guarding for fish, snails, shrimp, etc. I found that the slots were a death trap for anything that got sucked against them. The flat cut intakes allowed smaller fish and snails to simply travel to the sump. The only fish I have found dead in the overflow itself are larger fish that were clearly sick before they got there. Smaller fish tend to "flee" into the overflow or in the case of top swimmers (and shrimp), simply take a ride there.

At one point in the history of the tank, egg crate strips were placed into the overflow to prevent critters from entering. This was UGLY and an algae (think turf scrubber) trap. It was my only option due to the Oceans Motions plumbing fitted at various points above the overflow.

I have since moved the obstructing plumbing and fitted acrylic (1/2" thick) lids over the weir. The lids have a lip that extends down toward the water surface, leaving only a slit for the water to enter the weir. This has prevented all but the smallest critters from taking the ride to the sump.

Where YOU guard the overflow box (or if you do) is largely dependent on what you keep and what your maintenance schedule and expectations are. Like I said, for a LONG time I had NO guarding and simply resigned myself to fishing (no pun) stuff out of the sump on a fairly regular basis (I had a blenny that took the ride twice a week for a year... I think he did it on purpose).

 

[zeebies]

Bean, do you have a picture of the weir lid you speak of? Can't quite picture the lip extending down toward the water surface. Thank you.

 

[hbash]

Ok, so I finally tapped the pvc cap and threaded the John Quest Fitting (with Teflon tape) onto it. I thought it would be neater and perhaps better to use a couple of John Guest elbow to make a nice turn of the airline versus just having a loop. Once I fire up the overflow I will cut down the end of the tube such that it is just over the emergency upturned elbow.

I'd appreciate any constructive criticisms on this. Thanks in advance.

 

[Lavoisier]

I have since moved the obstructing plumbing and fitted acrylic (1/2" thick) lids over the weir. The lids have a lip that extends down toward the water surface, leaving only a slit for the water to enter the weir. This has prevented all but the smallest critters from taking the ride to the sump.

That's a great idea.

 

[hbash]

I have a question about gluing standpipe components in overflow. As the width of my Overflow is 5.5" and that the bulkhead is bottom drilled with the standpipes plumbed from there, if I glue the elbows to their tees, even though the bulkhead fittings are threaded, it will not be possible to remove the standpipe(s) from within the box as there won't be room to rotate them to unscrew them from the bulkhead.

So, is it necessary to glue the elbows to the tees?

(BTW, I know the fittings I posted above are John Guest..., duh)

 

[woodnaquanut]

I'd appreciate any constructive criticisms on this. Thanks in advance.

Looks good. How about starting with an elbow, threaded on one end. Then you only need one other elbow and it will be shorter.

 

[hbash]

You Mean to Remove the Short Piece

You Mean to Remove the Short Piece

Looks good. How about starting with an elbow, threaded on one end. Then you only need one other elbow and it will be shorter.

Instead of a short piece of RO tubing to the first elbow, to attach some threaded elbow to the PVC cap? I'm sure that's doable, but what does that do towards making the path of the tubing more defined (vs. an arc coming out of the JD fitting)?

 

[uncleof6]

Instead of a short piece of RO tubing to the first elbow, to attach some threaded elbow to the PVC cap? I'm sure that's doable, but what does that do towards making the path of the tubing more defined (vs. an arc coming out of the JD fitting)?

Depends, the inlet to the air vent line gets attached to the trim at the top of the tank, so the inlet is higher than the inlet to the dry emergency. In the image above, it will be far too low. Aside from that, it is an air vent, a "secured" arc is every bit as good as using more parts, it does not need to be well defined by elbows and such.

 

[uncleof6]

I have a question about gluing standpipe components in overflow. As the width of my Overflow is 5.5" and that the bulkhead is bottom drilled with the standpipes plumbed from there, if I glue the elbows to their tees, even though the bulkhead fittings are threaded, it will not be possible to remove the standpipe(s) from within the box as there won't be room to rotate them to unscrew them from the bulkhead.

So, is it necessary to glue the elbows to the tees?

(BTW, I know the fittings I posted above are John Guest..., duh)

I would recommend that you seal the standpipes. I don't recommend threaded bulkheads, in this particular circumstance, for the very reason you are describing. There really should not be a need to take the standpipes out once the system is put into operation, with slip bulkheads, the standpipes don't "really" have to be solvent welded in place, though it is a good idea. The stand pipes are serviciable from above, if assembled as designed, so solvent welding does not take anything away from the serviceability. (Sani tees are not required however.)

Directly, if the elbows are slip, yes they need to be solvent welded to the tees, otherwise you will have air leaks in the system.