Silent and Failsafe Overflow System

I think Uncle is the only one that understands my setup...

As I prefer to retain 100% of my tank real estate for it's inhabitants I have a custom semi coast2coast external 44" overflow... Not a ghost overflow... I am not drilling holes on the back of the tank.

Uncle, as you stated the only modification is that due to the external over flow vs ghost, my bulkheads are on the bottom of the box (not side of the tank). I chose to go with 1" setup to save a few inches in width due to the location I chose to put the tank and the choice of an external overflow, this is why I am not doing the 1.5" sanity setup.


Back to my original question, due to the picture in the original thread seeming to have everything equal and then seeing many many setups where people have their siphon and open channel offset about 1/4"-1/2" what is the preferred setup?

My external overflow is taller than the average ghost overflow so I'm not restricted by some of the 3-4" ghost overflows some people have
 
Bjanzen said:
Am I not explaining it right? The full siphon will keep running until the level is below the bottom of the elbow and breaks siphon. I remember thinking at first that the bulkheads needed to be staggered at different levels on the back wall. I have since realized that I can open the gate valve and pull 100% through the full siphon drain..... Although not what we should be doing. The emergency drain can also be drilled at the same level but with the elbow facing up. I thought the poster may not understand this operational concept or being able to visualize
Click to expand...

Maybe I am tired (usually the case) but I could not decipher the message...but second round gets it done...
 
rEeFnWrX said:
I think Uncle is the only one that understands my setup...

As I prefer to retain 100% of my tank real estate for it's inhabitants I have a custom semi coast2coast external 44" overflow... Not a ghost overflow... I am not drilling holes on the back of the tank.

Uncle, as you stated the only modification is that due to the external over flow vs ghost, my bulkheads are on the bottom of the box (not side of the tank). I chose to go with 1" setup to save a few inches in width due to the location I chose to put the tank and the choice of an external overflow, this is why I am not doing the 1.5" sanity setup.

Back to my original question, due to the picture in the original thread seeming to have everything equal and then seeing many many setups where people have their siphon and open channel offset about 1/4"-1/2" what is the preferred setup?

My external overflow is taller than the average ghost overflow so I'm not restricted by some of the 3-4" ghost overflows some people have
Click to expand...



At the same level.
 
uncleof6 said:
Generally, the issue is a low flow rate with large bulkheads
Click to expand...

Hmm, up until now, my plan has been to have 3 x 1.5" bulkheads as well as the 1.5" plumbing, but this comment gives me pause. What level of flow would be sufficient for 1.5" bulkheads to work ?

My plan is to run a reeflo dart as a return pump, which (after plumbing and friction loss) ought to be ~2000 gph. In fact I plan to have 2 of them plumbed in, so that a pump failure is a matter of turning a ball-valve or 2, and it's possible I might run both in parallel, dialed down a bit.

So let's say a minimum of 2000 gph, would the recommendation still be 1" bulkheads with 1.5" piping ?

Simon.
 
Spaced Cowboy said:
Hmm, up until now, my plan has been to have 3 x 1.5" bulkheads as well as the 1.5" plumbing, but this comment gives me pause. What level of flow would be sufficient for 1.5" bulkheads to work ?

My plan is to run a reeflo dart as a return pump, which (after plumbing and friction loss) ought to be ~2000 gph. In fact I plan to have 2 of them plumbed in, so that a pump failure is a matter of turning a ball-valve or 2, and it's possible I might run both in parallel, dialed down a bit.

So let's say a minimum of 2000 gph, would the recommendation still be 1" bulkheads with 1.5" piping ?

Simon.
Click to expand...

What a particular drain will flow, depends on the length of the drop, and friction loss in the pipe. I talk about 24", 36" a lot of the time. But with a 24" tall tank, a 24" drop is not even close ...at 36" drop, a 1" bulkhead will not, theoretically, let 2000 gph flow once friction loss is added in, at 48" of drop, 2357gph is the max theoretical (not accounting for friction losses.) I generally tell folks if targeting below 1500gph, use 1" bulkheads, but there is some wiggle room to go up with a drop over 24", which most are. If heading up towards 2000gph, the 1.5" bulkheads are called for...

Two pumps hooked up to the same plumbing require check valves on the outputs. This keeps the running pump (flowing water) from spinning the impeller of the non-running pump backwards. Hooking up two pumps, and running them both means there is no backup pump. A running pump can fail...

A pump on the shelf is an emergency backup pump. Although simply turning a valve is convenient, it really is not the way to go about it.
 
uncleof6 said:
What a particular drain will flow, depends on the length of the drop, and friction loss in the pipe. I talk about 24", 36" a lot of the time. But with a 24" tall tank, a 24" drop is not even close ...at 36" drop, a 1" bulkhead will not, theoretically, let 2000 gph flow once friction loss is added in, at 48" of drop, 2357gph is the max theoretical (not accounting for friction losses.) I generally tell folks if targeting below 1500gph, use 1" bulkheads, but there is some wiggle room to go up with a drop over 24", which most are. If heading up towards 2000gph, the 1.5" bulkheads are called for...
Click to expand...

Ok, so I should keep the 1.5" bulkheads then. My drop is probably more like 48".

uncleof6 said:
Two pumps hooked up to the same plumbing require check valves on the outputs. This keeps the running pump (flowing water) from spinning the impeller of the non-running pump backwards.
Click to expand...

Well, if they're in line it does :) My proposed setup will look something like (this isn't final by any stretch, I'm in the early stages of designing it at the moment):

tank-plumbing.png

With a close-up of the pumps looking like:

tank-pumps-closeup.png

The idea is that they can be isolated and switched in or out of the return loop.

uncleof6 said:
Hooking up two pumps, and running them both means there is no backup pump. A running pump can fail...

A pump on the shelf is an emergency backup pump. Although simply turning a valve is convenient, it really is not the way to go about it.
Click to expand...

Well, the idea was that if a pump failed, there'd still be some pumping going on until I could swap out the failed pump, but your point about the check valve is well taken. I can see that the water circuit would preferentially just be pumping out of and back into the return area of the sump, rather than fighting gravity to go over the top of the tank.

Since I don't like check valves, perhaps the best thing to do is run a single pump at a time, but I'll probably keep the plumbing setup. Pumps fail rarely but it's easier to change things out when there's no pressure to get it done NOW because it broke the moment you left for work 8 hours ago...

I could make it work intelligently, but I don't really fancy getting into having flow sensors and actuated ball valves (so on pump failure, it would detect and close the appropriate valves). That sounds ... over-complex.

Simon.
 
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They always break when you are at work, or worse when you are in Tahiti for the week....

On the other hand if you take care of the pump, it may outlive you. Service is available for the reeflos, and so are parts, and destructions. PM keeps them running when you are in Tahiti. My oldest pump is circa 1984 give or take (a little giant.) I am 61, so I figure the pump will outlive me....
 
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I am getting a DSA225 pro tank with factory overflow it has 3 drains and 2 returns I want to run a bean animal setup anybody here do it with a dsa tank. Do you have any pics or info on doing it with a dsa tank. I have used this method on my 120 but had external box so its alittle different doing it with internal box
 
tommmys said:
I am getting a DSA225 pro tank with factory overflow it has 3 drains and 2 returns I want to run a bean animal setup anybody here do it with a dsa tank. Do you have any pics or info on doing it with a dsa tank. I have used this method on my 120 but had external box so its alittle different doing it with internal box
Click to expand...
Fortunately the DSA overflows are massive. Unfortunately... they are massive lol

You should be able to fit one with no issue.. I'd imagine you could just have a bare emergency pipe with no elbows to save room
 
tommmys said:
I am getting a DSA225 pro tank with factory overflow it has 3 drains and 2 returns I want to run a bean animal setup anybody here do it with a dsa tank. Do you have any pics or info on doing it with a dsa tank. I have used this method on my 120 but had external box so its alittle different doing it with internal box
Click to expand...

I do it on a DSA 190 with no issues.
 
Two questions, one silly one not so silly:
1) I finally have the Spear Non Hardening Thread Sealant and am about to apply it to the thread that I will tighten the three pvc end caps to. How tight to make them? Hand tight seems all I can do to allow me to open the cap in the event I need to clear a standpipe.

2) (The Silly Question) Is there any reason that the order of the three standpipes matters or as it seems to me, any order is fine?

Thanks (sorry for question #2)
 
My standpipes are not behind the overflow box but are plumbed through 3 bulkheads center bottom. So, how can I tighten more than hand and be able to remove for maintenance?

Thank.
 
The video I sent you to describes the correct way to do it. Of course they assume the pipe will be holding water under pressure. Since there is very little/no pressure on an overflow, go with hand tight.
 
Finger tight + ONE or two turns. Finger tight is not as tight as hand tight (some confuse the two) You are not going to be safe using a tool to get there. (can't get close to the base) Thread sealant has a "slight" lubricity to it...it is not going to lock up as quick with sealant on it...and you should not need a tool to get the one turn.
 
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Ok. How would you define finger tight? Turn using thumb and index and hand tight is all fingers as one would use on a jar?

Thanks.
 
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