uncleof6
Active member
Did you watch the video? Finger tight, then use your hand as the wrench....
Silent and Failsafe Overflow System
- Thread starter JohnL
- Start date
Did you watch the video? Finger tight, then use your hand as the wrench....
hbash
New member
Yes, I watched the video the day I ordered the sealant. Just making sure about definitions. I really want to eliminate any missteps.
The strap wrench is in our discussion the hand tight. Not sure if I will be able to hand tighten two additional rotations, but perhaps the sealant will lubricate the threads enough.
Thanks.
The strap wrench is in our discussion the hand tight. Not sure if I will be able to hand tighten two additional rotations, but perhaps the sealant will lubricate the threads enough.
Thanks.
uncleof6
Active member
One to two turns that means inbetween is enough... I never use tools to put this stuff together and i have a bad right hand....
sleepydoc
Team RC
I'm looking at converting my Marineland 120 gal corner flow to a coast-to-coast with a Beananimal setup. I'm hoping to run about 1000 gph through the sump.
In his original design, Bean used 1" bulkheads with a 1" x 1.25" elbow. I'm having a hard time finding one of those locally, so I'm stuck using either a 1" elbow, or a 1.25" elbow with a reducing bushing. The latter ends up sticking out significantly further, meaning the overflow box would get obtrusively large.
Does anyone know if using a 1" elbow for the intake will restrict flow too much?
Also, the general recommendation is to glue all joints to prevent air entrainment from breaking the siphon. Will sealing a slip joint with thread sealant work for the internal elbow-bulkhead connection? My concern with gluing is that it would make it very difficult/impossible to get the bulkhead out without removing the weir if I should need to replace it for any reason in the future. (all external connections will be glued, of course
)
In his original design, Bean used 1" bulkheads with a 1" x 1.25" elbow. I'm having a hard time finding one of those locally, so I'm stuck using either a 1" elbow, or a 1.25" elbow with a reducing bushing. The latter ends up sticking out significantly further, meaning the overflow box would get obtrusively large.
Does anyone know if using a 1" elbow for the intake will restrict flow too much?
Also, the general recommendation is to glue all joints to prevent air entrainment from breaking the siphon. Will sealing a slip joint with thread sealant work for the internal elbow-bulkhead connection? My concern with gluing is that it would make it very difficult/impossible to get the bulkhead out without removing the weir if I should need to replace it for any reason in the future. (all external connections will be glued, of course
)I am running a 75g at around 600 gph and have the gate valve way throttled back. I use slip 1" elbows and bulkheads and I find a slip fit works great for me inside the overflow box. I think most switch to 1.25 on the outside so the sanitary tee can make a smoother curve in the water flow. I stayed with 1" all the way and it works perfectly.
hbash
New member
That's fine. Thanks!
uncleof6
Active member
Said 1 turn I think... but you got a bit mondo on it maybe, it should disassemble by hand if only assembled by hand.
uncleof6
Active member
Does the additional width really make any significant difference to the OPERATION of the tank? Heck no, and function before aesthetics.
A 1" bulkhead (with no pipe attached) will flow 1669gph. With 1.5" pipe attached it will probably flow around 1500gph. With 1" pipe, 1200gph is not unexpected. I don't think the elbows would have a significant impact on the flow capacity.
Absolutely not. Thread sealants are for threads, glue is for socket fittings. If you want to get the elbows out, swap out the bulkheads for thread/slip, or thread/thread, and screw the elbows in. This will result in a wider overflow as well.Also, the general recommendation is to glue all joints to prevent air entrainment from breaking the siphon. Will sealing a slip joint with thread sealant work for the internal elbow-bulkhead connection? My concern with gluing is that it would make it very difficult/impossible to get the bulkhead out without removing the weir if I should need to replace it for any reason in the future. (all external connections will be glued, of course
Making things as small as you can is NEVER a smart plan.
hbash
New member
I used a strap wrench and was able to loosen the caps. I guess I don't know my own strength. LOL
Should I remove, add the sealant again and make sure to be a bit more gentle when tightening them back down? Or just leave well enough alone?
Also, someone asked a couple of posts ago if there is an alternative to PVC glue to fix the elbow to the tee which would be good for more flexibility in maintenance. Is this an option?
Thanks.
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uncleof6
Active member
I responded to sleepydoc's post. It is not a good idea at all. Wrong stuff for the wrong application.
The idea behind the non-hardening sealant is you can loosen it, and retighten it without it starting to leak. Be careful and experiment with it. Nothing is written in stone 100% of the time.
sleepydoc
Team RC
Does the additional width really make any significant difference to the OPERATION of the tank? Heck no, and function before aesthetics.
A 1" bulkhead (with no pipe attached) will flow 1669gph. With 1.5" pipe attached it will probably flow around 1500gph. With 1" pipe, 1200gph is not unexpected. I don't think the elbows would have a significant impact on the flow capacity.
Absolutely not. Thread sealants are for threads, glue is for socket fittings. If you want to get the elbows out, swap out the bulkheads for thread/slip, or thread/thread, and screw the elbows in. This will result in a wider overflow as well.
Making things as small as you can is NEVER a smart plan.
Thanks Uncle - You're right; function before aesthetics, just trying to maximize the latter without compromising the former.
My concern with the 1" vs 1.25" intake elbows was more the higher velocity possibly causing eddies rather than the absolute flow restriction. Planning on using 1.25" pipe for everything external to the tank, so that should be more than adequate.
I'll just plan on gluing the elbow in place; if I should need to disassemble for some reason in the future I'll have to saw off the back side of the bulkhead either way; I'll just have to do it closer to the tank.
uncleof6
Active member
You are learning. Good catch...
hbash
New member
Actually I am.....
I was wondering if someone would catch that. I have rigid airline attached to the upper side of the inner elbow to create a siphon should the water rise in the overflow. It does work for me and I have tested it to make sure. That said..... I would say the original design would work better
sleepydoc
Team RC
I was wondering what those tube poking out by the elbow of the 2nd pipe were for.
They will probably help, but the placement in Bean's original design would likely be better in terms of maximizing the flow before you encountered gurgling in the open channel pipe. Remember, the open channel pipe is essentially a Durso, and the amount of flow it can handle before it starts gurgling determines the range of flows you have tow work with to keep the system quiet, and therefore how precisely you need to adjust the valve on the full siphon pipe.
Another element of Bean's design is the placement of the end of that tube. When the water level rises and occludes the opening, it prevents air from being entrained and both increases the capacity of the pipe and creates noise as a warning that something is up. If the end of the tube is not placed properly the system will work, but you're eliminating one of the safeguards.
They will probably help, but the placement in Bean's original design would likely be better in terms of maximizing the flow before you encountered gurgling in the open channel pipe. Remember, the open channel pipe is essentially a Durso, and the amount of flow it can handle before it starts gurgling determines the range of flows you have tow work with to keep the system quiet, and therefore how precisely you need to adjust the valve on the full siphon pipe.
Another element of Bean's design is the placement of the end of that tube. When the water level rises and occludes the opening, it prevents air from being entrained and both increases the capacity of the pipe and creates noise as a warning that something is up. If the end of the tube is not placed properly the system will work, but you're eliminating one of the safeguards.
hbash
New member
There is this guy named Murphy that wrote these laws and somehow, he has obtained my location. So, as a result I try within reason to keep options and alternative available to me when possible.
Having said that and noting that it was suggested for those that want/need to be able to remove their elbows for maintenance reasons to use threaded connections I am heading in that direction
In the spirit of that suggestion I have ordered a slip to male threaded adapter for my 1.5" sanitary tees and 90 degree elbows with female threading on a branch to allow me to connect to my tees using the adapter and this threaded elbow.
The question is: In this configuration should I use that Spear 75 non hardening thread adhesive?
Thanks.
Having said that and noting that it was suggested for those that want/need to be able to remove their elbows for maintenance reasons to use threaded connections I am heading in that direction
In the spirit of that suggestion I have ordered a slip to male threaded adapter for my 1.5" sanitary tees and 90 degree elbows with female threading on a branch to allow me to connect to my tees using the adapter and this threaded elbow.
The question is: In this configuration should I use that Spear 75 non hardening thread adhesive?
Thanks.
sleepydoc
Team RC
Spears non-hardening thread sealant - yes.
I for the bulkhead-Tee connection, I would stick with the glued connection. They're easier, more secure and take less room; the top of the Tee allows for cleaning. If you plan properly, it's unlikely you'll need to remove the entire pipe unless you're taking down the aquarium and then the replacement fittings are relatively cheap.
If you want to use threaded fittings for the elbow, make sure you leave enough room to actually unscrew it should you need to.
uncleof6
Active member
Concerning the 4th law of thermodynamics, can you think of a scenario involving the elbows, that would require removing them, as opposed to running a bottle brush through them?
Case 1: A C2C overflow, that only extends ~ 3/4" or so below the inlet to the elbow/standpipe assembly. You would be hard pressed to get a finger into the elbow from inside the overflow, let alone run a bottle brush up through it. You might be able to get it from above via the removable cap, but the "FOD" might not push out the inlet as easily as it got in. *Just a little random thinking here.* Pulling the elbow would probably make things easier.
Case 2: With ~9" of useless overflow space below the elbow, Case 1 does not apply, because the elbow is accessible from both directions, without removal.
In both cases, not saying it would necessarily be easy to get to from above.
Good plumbing design, uses as few fittings, and threaded connections, as possible.
As with doc's question, the system will leak "air" around the top of the join between the elbow and the bulkhead/sani-tee, so a sealant is required, or solvent welded if a socket connection.
Case 1: A C2C overflow, that only extends ~ 3/4" or so below the inlet to the elbow/standpipe assembly. You would be hard pressed to get a finger into the elbow from inside the overflow, let alone run a bottle brush up through it. You might be able to get it from above via the removable cap, but the "FOD" might not push out the inlet as easily as it got in. *Just a little random thinking here.* Pulling the elbow would probably make things easier.
Case 2: With ~9" of useless overflow space below the elbow, Case 1 does not apply, because the elbow is accessible from both directions, without removal.
In both cases, not saying it would necessarily be easy to get to from above.
Good plumbing design, uses as few fittings, and threaded connections, as possible.
As with doc's question, the system will leak "air" around the top of the join between the elbow and the bulkhead/sani-tee, so a sealant is required, or solvent welded if a socket connection.
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