Silent and Failsafe Overflow System

[CaliCal]

No not really. It will be nearly impossible to get two BAs to balance out right, and connecting them all together merely creates one very large durso. It is not going to work so "fine."

large durso? I was talking about connecting at the bottom to have one pipe to the sump instead of multiples.

 

[uncleof6]

large durso? I was talking about connecting at the bottom to have one pipe to the sump instead of 6 or 3 ...

Yep. Know exactly what you were talking about. Because there would be two standpipes with nothing but air in them, (or one) and two standpipes with mostly air in them, (or one) the net result will be an entire drain system full of air = 1 large durso, and a waste of time. You have to remember that where and how the air enters the drain line is irrelevant, if air enters the drain line it is a Durso (or stockman, or open channel, or air assisted drain.) The physics are the physics. Although such a system would drain water, it would be a real mess to actually run and keep stable, unless the flow rate was very low.

 

[CaliCal]

Isn't thats what the BA design for? those 2 are for your emergency. I can adjust mines to full siphon but it's way to fast for my pump, so yes it can siphon and dead silent. only difference is that it goes into a 4" pvc pipe first, all 6 or for most people, 3. then to the sump.

 

[hbash]

I think the missed point is that each standpipe should have it's own distinct column pressure associated with it's termination points. By having them combined you no longer have independent column pressures.

 

[jmowbray]

I need some help with my overflow. Attached are the pictures of my system it is completely up and running so taking it down and redoing is not an option. There are no issue wen the tank is running. However, when I turn the main pump off to feed or the power goes out the main drain doesn't want to start back up. It's almost like it airlocks. Every time I have to pull the section of pipe then connect it back and it goes and every thing is normal. I have tried to leave it to see if it would start on it's own and have had no luck. The overflow box fills and drains down the emergency.



The pipe closest is the main, middle is the emergency and the far is the other drain that feeds the fuge.

 

[hbash]

Can you also add a picture of the return pipes showing where within the sump they terminate? It looks like you have at least one of them terminating within a sock filter which I believe is a problem.

 

[jmowbray]

Can you also add a picture of the return pipes showing where within the sump they terminate? It looks like you have at least one of them terminating within a sock filter which I believe is a problem.

If you are referring to me than yes they are in socks. However, I read that as long as the end of the pipe was below the surface of the water 2-3 inches it was fine.

 

[hbash]

I think that the distance submerged is 1/2" to 1" not 2-3". Consider back pressure. The deeper in the sump you terminate the pipe, the more the descending column of water is resisted.

 

[Mrramsey]

I need some help with my overflow. Attached are the pictures of my system it is completely up and running so taking it down and redoing is not an option. There are no issue wen the tank is running. However, when I turn the main pump off to feed or the power goes out the main drain doesn't want to start back up. It's almost like it airlocks. Every time I have to pull the section of pipe then connect it back and it goes and every thing is normal. I have tried to leave it to see if it would start on it's own and have had no luck. The overflow box fills and drains down the emergency.



The pipe closest is the main, middle is the emergency and the far is the other drain that feeds the fuge.

I also think it is in the main siphon drain at the sock. The pipe must only be about 1/2" below the water surface.

From the first pic it looks like you have two socks. You are not teeing the main siphon into both socks are you? If you are that is certainly the issue.

 

[Tpakiz]

Silent and Failsafe Overflow System

If you are referring to me than yes they are in socks. However, I read that as long as the end of the pipe was below the surface of the water 2-3 inches it was fine.

1/2" to 1" under the water level. If they are too deep, it will have trouble purging air on startup.

90 degree bends aren't good either.

 

[hbash]

1/2" to 1" under the water level. If they are too deep, it will have trouble purging air on startup.

90 degree bends aren't good either.

Yup. I think U6 would be proud of us.

 

[Thunderfan]

In the early stages of this thread I also read where bean advised someone to drill a couple small hole just above the water line to help purge the air. Guy had a similar problem and it fixed it right up.

 

[Thunderfan]

I need some help with my overflow. Attached are the pictures of my system it is completely up and running so taking it down and redoing is not an option. There are no issue wen the tank is running. However, when I turn the main pump off to feed or the power goes out the main drain doesn't want to start back up. It's almost like it airlocks. Every time I have to pull the section of pipe then connect it back and it goes and every thing is normal. I have tried to leave it to see if it would start on it's own and have had no luck. The overflow box fills and drains down the emergency.



The pipe closest is the main, middle is the emergency and the far is the other drain that feeds the fuge.

I'm curious how much flow you are doing and does it run quite? I would like to use 1" pipe on mine but people have me worried it won't be big enough. Only a 75g tank and going to shoot for about 800gph.

 

[jmowbray]

In the early stages of this thread I also read where bean advised someone to drill a couple small hole just above the water line to help purge the air. Guy had a similar problem and it fixed it right up.

In the overflow or in the sump

 

[jmowbray]

I'm curious how much flow you are doing and does it run quite? I would like to use 1" pipe on mine but people have me worried it won't be big enough. Only a 75g tank and going to shoot for about 800gph.

I'm running a Jebao DC9000 on full power for my display. I have never had any issues with the drains not being about to handle the amount of flow. I would estimate that with my current plumbing I'm pushing on average 1800-2000gph. I will reply to your PM as well.

 

[Thunderfan]

In the overflow or in the sump

In the sump just above water line.

 

[uncleof6]

I'm running a Jebao DC9000 on full power for my display. I have never had any issues with the drains not being about to handle the amount of flow. I would estimate that with my current plumbing I'm pushing on average 1800-2000gph. I will reply to your PM as well.

What size is the return plumbing after the tee? If it is 3/4", as it appears to be, you are not flowing anywhere near 1800gph... With 1" bulkheads, and the short drop, you are probably not doing more than ~ 1200gph, not with 1" pipe, through the drains. With the tee in the return probably less than that. That would be with the siphon wide open. If you want to run that sort of flow rate, you are going to have to do some serious redesigning to get there. I don't know where your information is coming from, (you said you read the pipe outlets should be 2 - 3" under the sump water level,) but it has been coming from a poorly informed source. I don't expect you to know it all, but those that you take advice from should know more, and generally there is more bad information running around than good.

I don't have time to go through your system right now, but later perhaps. One thing I am sure that is not going to come up is where you are dumping the open channel. It should be right next to the siphon, and there is absolutely not enough flow in the open channel (or should not be) to feed a fuge. The full flow of the system is not too much flow for a "fuge," but generally they should be fed from a branch in the return line, rather than a drain.

 

[CaliCal]

I think the missed point is that each standpipe should have it's own distinct column pressure associated with it's termination points. By having them combined you no longer have independent column pressures.

they are still independent. the pipe (not that i know of) changes anything from the BA. Just cleaner and one sock if needed. it's like a roof gutter but for the BA.

 

[hbash]

they are still independent. the pipe (not that i know of) changes anything from the BA. Just cleaner and one sock if needed. it's like a roof gutter but for the BA.

Two issues though come to mind. One is that to get the "silent" overflow effect you need to have the syphon standpipe 1/2" to 1" below water in sump and the second is that since as a sock gets dirty the water level in it will rise, you'll never get the system quite tuned as the depth in water will vary with time and grime.

 

[Lavoisier]

Uncle, I am baffled by the "break-in" period. What changes? My system has been up and running for about 6 weeks (plus a week running fresh water) and the first couple of weeks it had difficulty purging the air out of the siphon--it took a long time and I usually lost patience and "fixed" it myself. Then at some point it just started working perfectly. What are the physics (or magic) that account for the difference?