Silent and Failsafe Overflow System

[Maxxingout]

Thunderfan; I pretty much have the same setup as you. I just finished all my plumbing after a few hiccups. You hit the nail on the head when you with that 10sec syphon time. I was very surprised at how fast it kicked in with minimum air purging.

I will have to give kudos to all the very helpful and knowledgeable people here. Without a doubt helped me understand and implement the BA system.

 

[robertifly]

Love this setup for tank return, wondering what other people's experience with the systems ability to return to full siphon is, mine took 6 tries today from a static start? I suppose the flow rate of return pump could cause a difference?

 

[Mrramsey]

Love this setup for tank return, wondering what other people's experience with the systems ability to return to full siphon is, mine took 6 tries today from a static start? I suppose the flow rate of return pump could cause a difference?

If your siphon is having trouble starting then you probably have the drains too far below the surface of the water in the sump. They ideally need to be 1/2" to 1" below the surface. If they are too deep it is harder for the siphon to purge the air out of the line.

 

[Mrramsey]

Well, I went ahead and plumbed my bean. I was given advice that it would not work properly and I would have floods. I had all the stuff to do it and thought that if it didn't work all I was out was time. If it does work I save time and money by not having to get all new parts to go a different way. This thing works like a dream. Take about 10 seconds if that for the syphon to kick in. Water level never reaches the emergency pipe at all in start up. No bubbles and no noise. I have ran different types of situations including power failure and restore as well as clogged pipes. It works perfectly on every one. Now I just need to figure out how much flow my pump is putting out. It's not in the list on the calculator. Running a Jebao dc-6000 at full blast.

Here is a calculator that I have used. It should gine you a pretty good idea.

You will need the length of your weir in inches, and the depth of the water going over the weir. http://irrigation.wsu.edu/Content/Calculators/Water-Measurements/Rectangular-Contracted-Weir.php

At the moment mine is flowing ~960GPM which is a 40" weir @ 1/4" deep for ~16GPM * 60 Minutes = ~960GPH

 

[Thunderfan]

Love this setup for tank return, wondering what other people's experience with the systems ability to return to full siphon is, mine took 6 tries today from a static start? I suppose the flow rate of return pump could cause a difference?

Mine starts without fail no matter what speed my pump is at. My syphon starts is running in seconds then I just make adjustments with my gate valve. If your pipe is less than an inch deep in the sump you can drill a couple small hole just above the waterline in the sump. I didn't need to do that but have read in this thread where it helped the syphon start.

 

[asl4me76]

I have been thinking about the lay out of my plumbing and wanted to get some feedback from ya'll before I just hop into getting everything set up. Here is just a small sample drawing of what it is that I am thinking. Let me know if this would work or if I am better off having all 3 drain pipes to have individual drop ins into the sump.

I will be running a 40 gal breeder with a 29gallon tall sump.

• Red = emergency / fail safe
• Green = drains
• Purple = returns

 

[Mrramsey]

I have been thinking about the lay out of my plumbing and wanted to get some feedback from ya'll before I just hop into getting everything set up. Here is just a small sample drawing of what it is that I am thinking. Let me know if this would work or if I am better off having all 3 drain pipes to have individual drop ins into the sump.

I will be running a 40 gal breeder with a 29gallon tall sump.

• Red = emergency / fail safe
• Green = drains
• Purple = returns

They will have to be individual drains into the sump. It will NOT work with the drains merged into one pipe. Also I would suggest switching the return and fuge compartments and feed the fuge off of a return.

 

[Thunderfan]

stolen art

stolen art

I stole this off somebody but, this is how mine is done. Works very well.

 

[woodnaquanut]

I have a couple of questions. I'm getting ready to set up a 140 gallon system with a reef ready, center overflow. I know that this is not the most efficient at surface skimming, but it's what I'm stuck with. The center overflow has 3 - 1" drains and 2 - 3/4" returns, so I'd like to set it up in Bean Animal fashion. I understand that I should plumb with inch and a half pipe below the 1" bulkhead, but what about above? Also, does anyone have any idea how much flow this type of setup will have? I'm wanting to pick my return pump soon. Thanks.

Doesn't seem like you ever got an answer so I'll give it a shot...

I plumbed my 120g with all 1" bulkheads pipe and valve. My return is a Eheim 1262. Pushes about 900 gph with no head. The valve on the siphon is about half open.

So with all that, IMHO, one inch would be fine unless you are pushing a tremendous amount thru the return pump. I've read (no indication if it's true!) that a 1" pipe can handle 1200 gph in full siphon.

 

[asl4me76]

I stole this off somebody but, this is how mine is done. Works very well.

From the looks of the photo is that it is pulling water into the return from both the fuge area and the return area, am I assuming that correctly?!? For the returns, would a mag 5 be enough to split it to two different outputs in the tank?

So, I would drop the emergency and the primary drain into the skimmer section and then the other drain into the fuge area. Having the fuge baffled up just like the skimmer section, but with only two baffles vs 3. Am I understanding this correctly?

 

[uncleof6]

From the looks of the photo is that it is pulling water into the return from both the fuge area and the return area, am I assuming that correctly?!? For the returns, would a mag 5 be enough to split it to two different outputs in the tank?

So, I would drop the emergency and the primary drain into the skimmer section and then the other drain into the fuge area. Having the fuge baffled up just like the skimmer section, but with only two baffles vs 3. Am I understanding this correctly?

No. Look at it again, full size:

 

[asl4me76]

No. Look at it again, full size:

Okay, just to make sure I am reading the photo above correctly. Two returns, the emergency and the main drain(with valve) is dropped into the skimmer section and the third drain is dropped into the return area. The retur itself is pulling water from both the fuge and the return section. Is that correct??

Sorry for the noobish questions, I want to make sure I'm fully understanding before I even venture into the plumbing of this tank. I just want to make sure I fully understand.

 

[Thunderfan]

In this pic the syphon and open channel are going i mn the skimmer section I put my emergency into that section also. I don't think that really matters. 1 pump for return into a tee one side goes to display the other has gate valve feeding fuge so you can regulate flow in fuge. The fuge section overflows back into the return section.

 

[asl4me76]

I got ya!! I think. The purpose of the T off to the fuge is to provide some water movement in the fuge, so it doesn't become stagnant.

 

[uncleof6]

I got ya!! I think. The purpose of the T off to the fuge is to provide some water movement in the fuge, so it doesn't become stagnant.

Correct, however the design is becoming deprecated because the actual usefulness of an in-sump is ambiguous. Generally, due to common practices, the "fuge" does more harm than good. Also, the flow rate through such a fuge is pathetically low, by common practice, and that is a part of the problem, but by no means the entire issue. This thread deals with a particular drain system design, it does not deal with system design in general, nor the ambiguity of an in-sump fuge. And yes, the design and drawing are mine...

 

[asl4me76]

Correct, however the design is becoming deprecated because the actual usefulness of an in-sump is ambiguous. Generally, due to common practices, the "fuge" does more harm than good. Also, the flow rate through such a fuge is pathetically low, by common practice, and that is a part of the problem, but by no means the entire issue. This thread deals with a particular drain system design, it does not deal with system design in general, nor the ambiguity of an in-sump fuge. And yes, the design and drawing are mine...

That's fine, just wanting to make sure that I was understanding the photo and interpreting it as it was intended to be. I appreciate all of the feedback that you have provided me with uncle! It has been extremely valuable!

Again, thanks a lot!

 

[robertifly]

Return to full siphon Problem

Return to full siphon Problem

Mine starts without fail no matter what speed my pump is at. My syphon starts is running in seconds then I just make adjustments with my gate valve. If your pipe is less than an inch deep in the sump you can drill a couple small hole just above the waterline in the sump. I didn't need to do that but have read in this thread where it helped the syphon start.

I'm running 3/4" below level on the return pipe, I've put the holes in that you described long ago to no avail. Yesterday after reading your reply I did two things, 1. removed the screen bag from return 2. taped those holes closed temporarily. Results after fine tuning the siphon it finally ran all night at full siphon. Just now I shut down the pumps and let everything settle and restarted. Pretty much the same with 5-6 purges before settling down to full siphon, then once more flowing out the dry pipe and then settling down. I do have the uptake side of the dry pipe neck a little shorter than the main full siphon uptake other than that they are the same except for the 1/4" siphon break. Luckily it has never used the emergency drain, the water is steady in the collection box now at 1/2 the height of the exit. So I'm ok with this but can't figure why so many cycles to settle down.

 

[Thunderfan]

I'm running 3/4" below level on the return pipe, I've put the holes in that you described long ago to no avail. Yesterday after reading your reply I did two things, 1. removed the screen bag from return 2. taped those holes closed temporarily. Results after fine tuning the siphon it finally ran all night at full siphon. Just now I shut down the pumps and let everything settle and restarted. Pretty much the same with 5-6 purges before settling down to full siphon, then once more flowing out the dry pipe and then settling down. I do have the uptake side of the dry pipe neck a little shorter than the main full siphon uptake other than that they are the same except for the 1/4" siphon break. Luckily it has never used the emergency drain, the water is steady in the collection box now at 1/2 the height of the exit. So I'm ok with this but can't figure why so many cycles to settle down.

Your open channel shouldn't be below your syphon I don't think. I read some advice bean had given a guy in the early pages of this thread and he advised the guy to raise his open channel 1/2"-1" above the full syphon on the intake side then drill holes if needed. My open channel is about 1/2" or so higher than the syphon at the intake end.

 

[robertifly]

Well maybe, I thought all three were to be the same height as they exit the collection box as mentioned I have shortened the length of the elbow so if breaks siphon before the full siphon drain. mmmmm to change will mean a new box made.

 

[silent_circle]

Two questions, one silly one not so silly:
1) I finally have the Spear Non Hardening Thread Sealant and am about to apply it to the thread that I will tighten the three pvc end caps to. How tight to make them? Hand tight seems all I can do to allow me to open the cap in the event I need to clear a standpipe.

2) (The Silly Question) Is there any reason that the order of the three standpipes matters or as it seems to me, any order is fine?

Thanks (sorry for question #2)

If there is no pressure I wouldn't worry about selling it. Maybe on the return side