Silent and Failsafe Overflow System

[Floyd R Turbo]

I'm an acrylic guy so I can't answer that heh heh

What I can say is that if you build with the sides on top, that's opposite of the normal technique (for both acrylic and glass) where the front and back panels are on top of the end panels (the edges of the ends are bonded to the inside face of the front/back panel) so "extending the sides" becomes a constructability change, and you may not want to go there. If anything, on the front of your tank, you're going to see the end of the side panels, which is kinda ugly.

My personal advice would be to drill the back panel for pass-through holes and then use a very thin inside coast-to-coast and an outside box made of either glass or acrylic, and make those separate pieces. Basically either buy or make your own version of a Shadow or Ghost.

The reason I say this is because it allows for a lot of flexibility and allow you to correct something if you later realize that it doesn't work exactly the way you want it or envisioned it, or if you want to do something a bit different, etc. Making is part of the structure of the tank sounds great on paper but it also locks you into a solution and limits your ability to change.

Making a sturdy acrylic box and using bulkheads to hold it in place is a solid long-term solution. If you want some peace of mind, you can add in some kind of support method to take stress off the box and mitigate against any potential failure points (like weight of hanging off the back panel, if you're worried about that)

Cutting a notch in the top of the back panel or cutting teeth in the glass creates a huge amount of failure points. Lowering the height of the back panel relative to the sides would probably work, then add in a notched attachment or gutter guard etc, there's more than one way to do it, but I go back to the idea of building an overflow solution into the tank as having it's drawbacks...because I've done it.

 

[Lsufan]

Im the one that called it a notch & probably shouldn’t have. It sounds to me he is planning on just making the back pane of glass shorter then the front & sides.

I’m no builder & they have calculators for glass thickness if u know how to use them. Imo 3/16 would be way undersized. The only way I see 1/4” being ok is if u use trim & have a center brace & it’s still probably to small. If u plan on it being rimless then I would think it would have to be atleast 1/2”. I don’t think 3/8” would even be enough. I’m not positive on that so u definitely want to find out before getting glass.

 

[DougSupreme]

Im the one that called it a notch & probably shouldn't have. It sounds to me he is planning on just making the back pane of glass shorter then the front & sides.

I'm no builder & they have calculators for glass thickness if u know how to use them. Imo 3/16 would be way undersized. The only way I see 1/4" being ok is if u use trim & have a center brace & it's still probably to small. If u plan on it being rimless then I would think it would have to be atleast 1/2". I don't think 3/8" would even be enough. I'm not positive on that so u definitely want to find out before getting glass.

I'm building the tank out of 3/8". I'm considering building the overflow out of 1/4" but I May go larger if the price isn't much

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[SumptyDumpty]

Here is a channel that had a modified Bean Animal I saved to my bookmarks as well as a video that he just added today!

Type in the title of the video on youtube or watch the linked video, your choice.

Justin Stanley
Published on Apr 13, 2018
Overflow Spotlight and Setup
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NZ9ROj24L-4

Older video from him.
Justin Stanley
Published on Mar 25, 2015
Modified "Bean Animal" Overflow Drain Test
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oya6X3aLUOo

 

[Chad_P]

Dumb question but when I hold my finger over the RO/DI line (connected to quick connect fitting) I don't get a quick flush from the open channel. Any idea what may cause this? I have my siphon channel lower than the open channel. Can't post a good pic because overflow is against wall.


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[Lsufan]

Because it still has to purge the air from the pipe. So it would have to build up enough to purge the air. In order to test it out u would need to close the valve on the syphon like it got clogged. That way the water builds up in the overflow box enough to purge the air from the open channel

 

[Chad_P]

Ah that makes sense. Thought I had something wrong but was confused because it was running so quiet. Thank you for clarifying!


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[DougSupreme]

I'm building the tank out of 3/8". I'm considering building the overflow out of 1/4" but I May go larger if the price isn't much

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So, the plans have changed. I'm still planning on building the tank in the same configuration, but instead of glass, I've decided to use plywood. I'm 100% confident in my ability to make it work and look good.

I had too many people show concern with with building my first glass tank that large (wife was the deal breaker)

Still going to use a coast to coast overflow with the Bean animal drain setup.

Wish me luck. I'll probably start a build thread soon

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[Chad_P]

quick question here related to stopping/starting the return pump. Seems I have trouble getting the siphon going. When it's recommended to have the drain into the sump no deeper than 1/2" below the water level, is that when the system is running or when the return pump is off and the return line has siphoned down a bunch of water back into the sump?

 

[DougSupreme]

quick question here related to stopping/starting the return pump. Seems I have trouble getting the siphon going. When it's recommended to have the drain into the sump no deeper than 1/2" below the water level, is that when the system is running or when the return pump is off and the return line has siphoned down a bunch of water back into the sump?

I believe it's when it's running. You can drill a couple of small holes just above to running water line to help purge the air from the siphon line

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[Lsufan]

How is your overflow setup? Is it a interior box, exterior box or a ghost type overflow? To answer your question, it should be around 1/2” below the water level when the system is running.

From your first post it sounds like u have eighther a ghost type overflow or a exterior box. If that is the case & your stand pipes are actually inside the overflow box then u can try raising the open channel or lowering the syphon. What happens is the open channel can take on to much water & cause it not to build up enough to purge the air from the syphon. By having the open channel higher then the syphon it usually takes care of that.

That is one of the most common reasons but they have others that also make it hard to purge the air from the syphon. If u explain more about your system I’m sure we could figure it out without having to drill holes in the pipe. Drilling a hole can work but if it is setup properly it shouldn’t be needed.

 

[Chad_P]

How is your overflow setup? Is it a interior box, exterior box or a ghost type overflow? To answer your question, it should be around 1/2" below the water level when the system is running.

Ghost over flow


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[Chad_P]

How is your overflow setup? Is it a interior box, exterior box or a ghost type overflow? To answer your question, it should be around 1/2" below the water level when the system is running.

From your first post it sounds like u have eighther a ghost type overflow or a exterior box. If that is the case & your stand pipes are actually inside the overflow box then u can try raising the open channel or lowering the syphon. What happens is the open channel can take on to much water & cause it not to build up enough to purge the air from the syphon. By having the open channel higher then the syphon it usually takes care of that.

That is one of the most common reasons but they have others that also make it hard to purge the air from the syphon. If u explain more about your system I'm sure we could figure it out without having to drill holes in the pipe. Drilling a hole can work but if it is setup properly it shouldn't be needed.

It's the eshopps eclipse L overflow. I've got the full siphon set up lower than the open channel already, was having issues dialing it in until I did that. I then added the John guest fitting and ro/di line to the top of the open channel and that's when the system really quieted down and is running awesome. Just can't seem to get it to purge after restarting return pump.


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[Lsufan]

That is one of the issues with those small overflow boxes. If I was u I would remove the pipe out of the bulkhead on the syphon & try it like that. That will tell u if that is your issue. With that small box u may find the open channel has to be quite a bit higher then the syphon for it to get enough pressure to purge the air. If the open channel starts taking water before the syphon purges the air then it will take a while for it to purge & may not at all.

Remove the pipe from the syphon bulkhead & see. U don’t need a pipe on the syphon anyway, so if it works better u can just put a strainer straight on the bulkhead.

If that doesn’t work then u have narrowed it down & can move on to the next thing to try

 

[Chad_P]

That is one of the issues with those small overflow boxes. If I was u I would remove the pipe out of the bulkhead on the syphon & try it like that. That will tell u if that is your issue. With that small box u may find the open channel has to be quite a bit higher then the syphon for it to get enough pressure to purge the air. If the open channel starts taking water before the syphon purges the air then it will take a while for it to purge & may not at all.

Remove the pipe from the syphon bulkhead & see. U don't need a pipe on the syphon anyway, so if it works better u can just put a strainer straight on the bulkhead.

If that doesn't work then u have narrowed it down & can move on to the next thing to try

Thanks for the suggestion. I'll give that a try and report back. Right now I have elbows on the open and siphon channels so I'll try removing from the siphon


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[Str8linespeed]

Quick question. Getting ready to start up my tank. The hole in the top of the open channel piping elbow. Is it necessary to install a fitting and 1/4" air line? I have not installed that fitting and air line yet, but if I have to where does the air line go to? Is it just an open vent to the atmosphere?

 

[DougSupreme]

The end of the air line gets mounted just above the running level of the overflow. If there is a blockage in the siphon, the water level in the overflow will rise, closing off the air line turning the open channel into a full siphon

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[Str8linespeed]

The end of the air line gets mounted just above the running level of the overflow. If there is a blockage in the siphon, the water level in the overflow will rise, closing off the air line turning the open channel into a full siphon

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Ok, thank you and that makes sense. I guess that brings me to the next question. When I tested my tank the water level was about 3/4-7/8 of the height of my open channel. Full siphon was under the water, and I had about 1" to the top of the emergency drain. Does that sound about right?

 

[Lsufan]

U really want the end of the airline to be just above the emergency. That way the emergency takes water before the open channel turns to a syphon. The main reason is because if the open channel syphons to quickly it can cause startup issues with the main syphon purging its air. The open channel may drain the overflow box before the syphon can purge its air. So the open channel should only syphon if both the syphon & emergency get clogged, so it’s kind of the last line of defense. It isn’t always the case & there is other factors, but it can be a issue. If I remember correctly u have a mm overflow box. In that case depending on your hieghts, u may be able to get away without a airline. If the hole u drill in the top of the U bend is slightly above the emergency & around 1” below the top of the overflow box then u can get away with not attaching a airline.

As far as water levels, it sounds ok but it’s hard to say without a pic or drawing. U will want the water level to be somewhere on the pass thru bulkhead. If the water level is below the bulkhead u will have a waterfall entering the box & it will be loud. Where u want the water level inside of the box will determine the hieght of the open channel. I would start with the top of the U bend on the open channel close to the top of the bulkheads

 

[Str8linespeed]

U really want the end of the airline to be just above the emergency. That way the emergency takes water before the open channel turns to a syphon. The main reason is because if the open channel syphons to quickly it can cause startup issues with the syphon. The open channel drain the overflow box before the syphon can purge its air. So the open channel should only syphon if both the syphon & emergency get clogged, so it's kind of the last line of defense. It isn't always the case & there is other factors, but it can be a issue.

As far as water levels, it sounds ok but it's hard to say without knowing more. Mainly the type of overflow box & how your standpipes are configured. The same thing as far as the easiest way to attach the airline, it depends how your pipes are configured.

Thanks for the explanation.

Im using a modular marine ghost overflow. Tough to get behind the tank to take pics.





The first pic is full siphon, (90* st. elbow with a strainer),

2nd pic is from the other direction. Its a 1" pipe and a st. elbow and another st. elbow. making the U portion.