Silent and Failsafe Overflow System

[Lsufan]

Yea, I edited my last post because I thought u had a mm box, so it may be worth taking another look at it. I think u can get away with not adding the airline & just leaving the hole in the top of the 90.

If u find that your syphon sucks air every once in a while u may need to add another 90 to make it a U bend. If it doesn’t suck air then it is fine how it is.

 

[Str8linespeed]

Yea, I edited my last post because I thought u had a mm box, so it may be worth taking another look at it. I think u can get away with not adding the airline & just leaving the hole in the top of the 90.

If u find that your syphon sucks air every once in a while u may need to add another 90 to make it a U bend. If it doesn't suck air then it is fine how it is.

Thanks for the info, I'll hopefully be starting it up today.

 

[Str8linespeed]

Tank is online and I believe I have the BA for the most part dialed with the current piping in the overflow.

I have 2 questions.

1) My water level is about 1.25-1.5" below the rim of the tank. Just about a 1/4" above the lowest point of the slots in the weir. I have at least a full inch left until it dumps over the top of the weir. If I want to raise the water level in the DT, would I cut a longer piece of PVC to raise the open channel u bend higher in the overflow box, as well as raise my emergency?

2) Im not even close to going over the top of my emergency drain, but occasionally I will get a trickle of water that comes down that pipe. This happens about once every 45min. I've taken the pipe out of the overflow box, and twisted it back in but it still happens. Should I be concerned?

 

[Lsufan]

1- The water level in the dt is determined by the hieght of the weir. So there is no way to adjust that. By adjusting the valve on the syphon it will only affect the water level inside of the overflow box, not the DT.

2- It will probably make some noise every time water goes into the emergency. I would try to lower the water level inside of the overflow box. If a little water goes into the emergency on startup it isn’t a big deal & can even be expected, but I wouldn’t want it happening under normal conditions when the system is running. Where is the water level inside of the overflow box? How high is it on the pass thru bulkheads that hold the box on the tank?

 

[Str8linespeed]

1- The water level in the dt is determined by the hieght of the weir. So there is no way to adjust that. By adjusting the valve on the syphon it will only affect the water level inside of the overflow box, not the DT.

2- It will probably make some noise every time water goes into the emergency. I would try to lower the water level inside of the overflow box. If a little water goes into the emergency on startup it isn't a big deal & can even be expected, but I wouldn't want it happening under normal conditions when the system is running. Where is the water level inside of the overflow box? How high is it on the pass thru bulkheads that hold the box on the tank?

1)Gotcha, not much I can do about that, and the weir is as high as it could go anyways.

2)The water in the overflow isnt going high enough to get into the emergency tube, I think its going between the bulkhead fitting and pvc pipe. I still have about 2" until it gets to that height. Like I said its just a dribble of water coming out of that tube, about every 45 minutes or so. The water height on the pass through bulkheads are about 1/2 of the diameter. Kind of hard to tell, because I cant get my head back there.

 

[Lsufan]

That isn’t anything to worry about then. A little water getting through won’t hurt anything & u shouldn’t be able to hear it. Seems about right on the water level to, so it sounds like u have it dialed in pretty good.

 

[Sisterlimonpot]

I need a measurement

I need a measurement

Without combing through all these posts, can someone give me the measurement of the distance from the back of the tank to the most end point of the plumbing that extrudes out from the three 1.5" standpipes?

i'm planning the traditional layout from the tank, drill a hole, place a 1.5" threaded bulkhead, Immediately a "T", plumbing goes straight down with 45 degree bend so that the gate valve/ball valves will be plumbed under the tank.

Depending on the answer, I may want to drop down to 1.25". Would that be advisable for a 300 gallon tank?

 

[Lsufan]

U are looking at 5.5” to 6” using a common bulkhead if u use a slip bulkhead & not a threaded on the nutt side of the bulkhead. If u use a threaded u will have to use threaded coupling to connect the bulkhead to the tee, & that will add another 1” to 2” depending on the coupling u use. By using a slip bulkhead on the nutt side of the bulkhead u can get the tee to where it is all the way against the bulkhead.

They also sell short bulkheads that can save about 1” in space behind the tank. So if u use a short, slip bulkhead u can only extrude 4.5” to 5” from the back of the tank. Most regular 1.5” bulkheads stick out 2” from the back of the tank. The short ones only stick out 1”.

So in 1.5” u are looking at
1- regular size slip bulkhead 5.5” to 6”
2- regular sized threaded bulkhead. 6.5” to 7.5”
3- short bulkhead(which I believe are all slip on the nutt side) 4.5” to 5”

 

[Sisterlimonpot]

Lsufan,
Thank you, that's exactly the information was looking for.

 

[tydtran]

Why do we need all these elbows?

I am planning to use Modular Marine overflow for my next tank. I look at how people plumb the external boxes and see that people use a down turn elbow for the full siphon and a slightly higher down turn elbow for the open channel. Why?

Wouldn't it more practical to use a short straight pipe for the full siphon, a longer straight pipe for the open channel, and the longest straight pipe for the emergency drain?

This would make installation easier and being able to see into the open channel allows you to adjust the water level in the box to a thin laminar flow easily.

 

[Lsufan]

As far as the syphon, if u extend a pipe out of the bulkhead & don’t have any 90’s then it can make sort of a vortex & suck air every once in a while. Especially with the smaller exterior boxes that most people get with the ghost type overflows. If u wanted to go that route I would just skip the pipe completely & put a strainer straight on the bulkhead. Doing it that way it will more then likely be low enough in the box so it won’t suck any air.

As far as the open channel, it would make more noise if u leavebit open on the top & would be loud if u have much flow at all going through it. One of the purposes of the open channel is so the system remains quiet with a little flunctuation in the system. With a open pipe u may be able to get it dialed in to where it may be quiet, but any flunctuation it would get loud & u would have to adjust the valve. One of beans goals when he came up with the setup was to pretty much have a system u can set & forget. So not have to constantly be adjusting the valve. Plumbing size makes a difference but I havnt touched the valve on eighther of my setups in years.

So imo, u could get by with just a pipe on the emergency, just a strainer straight on the bulkhead for the syphon, but I would make the U bend for the open channel. With a MM box u can probably get by without using the airline & just drill a hole in the top of the U bend, but u would need to set the hieght of the standpipes at the right level

 

[tydtran]

Thanks for the explanation Lsufan. I will do as you sugges.

 

[homerjay]

I'm building a 2ft cube and I'd like to put an internal Calflo with beananimal plumbing. I will be moving about 500gph return. I have a few questions.
1. How deep and wide do you recommend the dimensions of the overflow be to accommodate the siphon.
2. What size pipe do you recommend for a small application like this?

 

[Lsufan]

I would use 1” plumbing & 1” bulkheads for the drains. For the return it will depend on your return pump & if u plan on using locline. I would more then likely just use 1” for the returns to keep all the plumbing the same. If u want to use locline I would get a threaded 3/4” bulkhead for the return & reduce down from 1” to 3/4” close to the bulkhead.


As far as size, u just have to be able to fit the plumbing. So for 1” plumbing u will need to make the box atleast 2.75” wide (front to back) to be able to fit a street elbow inside of the box. Different fittings are a little different in size, so u may want to buy the plumbing so u can measure it before making the box. Or u could go ahead & make the box 3” & u will be able to fit the elbow. If u want the box a little narrower then u can always cut a little off the spigot end of a street elbow. I made my box 2.75” & from what I remember I had to cut about 1/4” off the elbow so it would fit.

As far as height, it will depend where u drill the holes in the tank. When u drill a hole u need to stay 1X the hole diameter from the edge of the glass to the hole. So for a 1” bulkhead u will need to be a minimum of 1.75” from the top rim of the tank to the top of the hole. If u go with these dimensions u should be able to make the height of the box 4”. That will put the top of the overflow box about 1.5” from the top of the tank, which is where your water line will be. So assuming u use a 1” bulkhead & u drill the hole 1.75” from the top of the tank to the top of the hole u can make the box 3” wide & 4” tall if u want the water line to be 1.25” to 1.5” from the top rim of the tank. If u want the water level higher then u will need to make the box taller

 

[saf1]

Sort of a dumb question but what prevents the valve from being fully open on the primary drain? My overflow drains are drilled 1 1/2" so that is the pipe size I am using along with the valves. However, inside the overflow box I didn't have room for it so reduced it to 1" pipe similarly to what Bean did in his. If mine is fully open then it starts to make the sucking sound. Hard to say how much but I have my valve probably 1/4 turn or reduced.

Does this indicate that my pump is not able to keep up? Cor 15 is what I'm running on a 210 gallon tank. Figured I'd ask since I wasn't sure. Thanks - have a good day.

 

[Lsufan]

Pretty much what u are saying is correct. If the valve is fully open then u would have to tune the return pump to the drain. It is unlikely that would happen & if it is draining the overflow with the return pump up all the way then the return pump can’t keep up. It wouldn’t surprise me if u had to pump 2000 gph for it to keep up with hour setup. Even if u could it would seem like it would be inconsistent.

That is one of the many positives about a beananimal drain. With your existing plumbing u can run anywhere from 200 gph to 2000 gph & the system work correctly. It makes it so much easier to tune the drain to the pump rather then the other way around

 

[saf1]

Pretty much what u are saying is correct. If the valve is fully open then u would have to tune the return pump to the drain. It is unlikely that would happen & if it is draining the overflow with the return pump up all the way then the return pump can't keep up. It wouldn't surprise me if u had to pump 2000 gph for it to keep up with hour setup. Even if u could it would seem like it would be inconsistent.

That is one of the many positives about a beananimal drain. With your existing plumbing u can run anywhere from 200 gph to 2000 gph & the system work correctly. It makes it so much easier to tune the drain to the pump rather then the other way around

[MENTION=306586]Lsufan[/MENTION] - thanks. I wasn't sure so wanted to ask. I had to read a bit in the thread and work out a few kings but like you said easy to tune once you have the set up correct. I have pretty much set it and have left it alone since I started the cycle and tank in February. The only time it needed any attention is when I brought one of the media reactors on-line after my rose bubble tips decided to spawn and muck up the water. But even then I didn't adjust anything on the bean plumbing. It was just adjusting the water flow through the reactor which was nice. Just wanted to be sure I - especially since this is the first DC pump I'm using (Cor 15).

Really glad I went with this. Thanks again.

 

[ca1ore]

Also, keep in mind that, depending on the drop, even a 1" siphon moves a ton of water. I forget the exact number, but it exceeds all but the very largest of pumps. My PW200 nets me about 1,350 which necessitates closing the gate valve by about 40%.

 

[Sisterlimonpot]

Here's a question that I can't seem to find a definite answer on:

Are the downward turned elbows of the "full siphon" and "open channel" even with each other? Or does the "open channel" sit higher? And if so how much higher?

Thanks You

 

[Lsufan]

They can be even but being u have a exterior box I would place the open channel atleast 1/2” to 1” higher then the syphon. With them the same hieght u can have a issue with the syphon purging it’s air. What happens is the open channel takes on water before the water builds up enough to purge the air from the syphon, making it take longer to purge if it does at all. So by placing the open channel higher it eliminates the possibility of that issue.

When I have a interior box & the 90’s go straight into the bulkhead in the back of the tank then I drill the holes the same height & the open channel & syphon are even. With a exterior box where the bulkhead is in the bottom I always place the open channel higher then the syphon