This is why I hate zoas

[Gravesj1s]

What a strange combo. I would chuckle, however thinking back I started loosing magicians around the time I put in the loisette

LOL ok,,I know it sounds crazy.

I just personally found I was unable to keep the true blue of the sps (Loisette) colored as it was in the tanks I got it from and maintain a growing colony of ppe or magicians <---- the ones looking rough in cullys tank.
It maybe my imagination but it seemed like more rox carbon would slow the zoa's down growth wise even to a screeching halt but some color improved in the loisette and it may well have continued to improve at the cost of my zoa's.
I think it relates to something orgainic wheather directly or indirectly I have no idea.

Im sure if I asked around,perhaps of the right people though a paper would probably surface and be thrown at me suggesting some worm had been located,found native to the mediteranean sea and only below 200 meters was observed in its habitat,IN FACT Graves, during examination it had a seizure in the absence of Iodine 13 days before normal breeding activity has ever been known to previously occur.This study suggests its biological clock may have been altered while constructing its burrow as evidence.Arriving at the conclusion and the need to supplement Iodine. .:uhoh2:


-Steve

 

[der_wille_zur_macht]

LOL ok,,I know it sounds crazy.

I just personally found I was unable to keep the true blue of the sps (Loisette) colored as it was in the tanks I got it from and maintain a growing colony of ppe or magicians <---- the ones looking rough in cullys tank.
It maybe my imagination but it seemed like more rox carbon would slow the zoa's down growth wise even to a screeching halt but some color improved in the loisette and it may well have continued to improve at the cost of my zoa's.
I think it relates to something orgainic wheather directly or indirectly I have no idea.

Interesting theory. I had a frag of that SPS that totally failed to thrive and then perished. And I'm pretty sure I have way higher "organics" than any of you. Fits with your theory but of course it could be something totally unrelated.

Don't think I've had any of that zoanthid though...

 

[Gravesj1s]

Your right Nate,and I really dont know what or why it happens.Yep it could be from to many things for any of us to really know,but here are things that might be reasonable to assume.

I'm not sure how many are aware of the work Ron Shimek did a number of years ago.He compared the low metal concentrations found in NSW to artificial seawater in aquariums that obviously have much higher levels of organics,and not some tanks but all our tanks.
The take home message I got was even though our tanks typically have much higher metal concentrations they were less toxic than that of nsw mainly because of binding with organics.
That said, its really hard for me to think metal toxcity is a real concern in general and I think its reasonable to not think it has anything to do with zoas melting.Though Im sure a hypothetical equation could be typed out to show one could be by way of an extracellular reaction could happen,but just from a reasonable position here is what Im looking at.

I'm also not really convinced or not seeing how allelopathay would affect zoa's like that.Most basic aquarium literature on the subject even notes zoa's are not known to to be affected ,they are even found growing on the base of soft corals whitch I dont think would happen if growth inhibitors were really the cause ? Looking at the mcra vol 1 shows an analysis of about a dozen or so tanks,including sanjay josi and julian sprung.Looking at the concentrations I dont see where any nutrient (inorganic) appeared limited.If it were related to something allelophathic I think it would make for a strong case against adding anything like Iodide or Bromide whitch are used to make a lot of these toxins......Just a thought....

I'm not that long winded so one final thought.
If those are a species of zoanthus in Cully's pic how do we know ?

A pic of both magicians or PPE growing in an aquarium with a loisette would be very useful to me.

Just my thoughts and I know its debatable any thoughts out there?

-Steve

 

[Capt_Cully]

As I have several other types of zoos and palys I chose not to treat these or dip them. ALL of my other ones are growing. Some very well, others slowly, but reproducing nonetheless.

As of yesterday, I've seen a bit of a rally from the ones that had been melting.

At their peak:

At their worst:

This am:

You can see, more than half of them are opening back up after a couple of week hiatus.

We can trouble shoot it all day long. I've been on the zoanthid forum a hundred times over the years reading about pests and dips and carbon dosing, vitamin C, lugol's, marine snow, etc etc etc. I just feel like (in as unscientificly/anectodally as possible), sometimes it is what it is. Why ask why.

Cully scratches head, walks away....

 

[TomBONAIRE]

Please excuse me for asking a dumb question, but when you are "dipping", how is the accomplished? Do you actually cut them out of your tank to dip them, or do you take the entire rock their on? I'd like to get a picture in my mind how that's done. Thx.

 

[Capt_Cully]

Most, not all, of my zoos are on smaller rocks that can be moved or removed fairly easily. The fickle nature of zoos have led me to this practice. If not happy in one place, they can be easily transported to another locale.

 

[Capt_Cully]

Basically fully recovered with NO parameter swings or maintenance routine changes.

Cully scratches head, still hates zoas, will keep buying them, moving on. :

 

[cardiffgiant]

Zoas torment me. For the most part, the do well. On the occasions that they don't, I generally have no idea what happened.

I also keep getting them even though I don't have much space left for them in my display. I have 4 or 5 kinds in my frag tank right now waiting for me to figure out where they should go. Including some nice purple hornets. I just haven't figured out where they would look best.

 

[tmz]

I have many too many but I love em. Just bought a bunch more on ebay auctions. I have to stop. Most do well for me with good light ,the organic carbon dosing and low
nitrate and phosphate and no nippers.

 

[iamwrasseman]

Mark you may want to dip them and be sure and do it well . there has been quite a bit of this going on and i have found dipping helps but it may not be the complete remedy .i'm thinking nudi's on this one .

 

[Gary Majchrzak]

surprised I remembered this thread?

surprised I remembered this thread?

Zoanthids are perplexing.

I noticed mine are making a comeback. I didn't even realize they were still in my aquarium cuz you couldn't see 'em any more.

Why are they making a comeback NOW?

What I'm I doing different?

Trying to narrow it down:
1) my skimmer is operating much better thanks to Mike's Iwaki 40 (beast)
2) I'm doing regular partial water changes
3) running carbon CONSTANTLY
4) I'm (trying) to keep pH and alkalinity up where it belongs

previous to these recent new efforts my zoos weren't doin so hot but Acros and other SPS were growing just fine.

 

[tmz]

Jsut some guesses.

1 and 3 on your list likely have reduced the TOC and maybe particular compounds not favored by the zoanthids. It's likely the organics have changed not only in total but in type.
The water changes may be adding certain minor or trace elements to their liking. The Reef Crystals also contains some organics that they may favor.

They are thought to rely more on absorbtion from the water for their heterotrophic needs than,sps. Some also like bacteria for food per Borneman; so, maybe a drop in refractory organics( not likely to breakdown by bacteria) along with some enhancement in more bio available organics is ocurring.
Mine do well. I do all the things you noted and have for some time. I also add vodka and vinegar and a tiny amount of iodide and iron to help make up for what the extra bacteria from organic carbon dosing and the gac my take out.

Anyway glad to hear thery're back.