Where can I find info on large scale coral farming?
- Thread starter Whaledriver
- Start date
Gary Majchrzak
Team RC
No. I've spent the past few years focused on other things.
Whaledriver...you hit it on the money. We are currently in the beginings of using local basement farmers to provide us with frags. We will be making contracts with them to supply us based on our monthly needs at different times of the years. This way one individual can concentrate on a few species instead of a HUGE operation trying to culture 150 different species. So far it looks like it will be a hit. We are hoping to have the new frags from the contracted farmers available this fall. So we'll see how it turns out.
hamburglar
New member
That all sounds win win for everyone. The distributer can worry about selling and the farmers can worry about growing.
For example, I love growing corals, but it will never surpass my day job money, so I'm not going to open up a "real" retail shop. I would rather sell to one large company or distributer at a reduced price to avoid the headachs. Then, like you said, I can specialize in just a couple species and dedicate more time to perfecting their specific craft so to speak.
This would also work as a failsafe for both the seller and farmer. A disaster in either location would not devistate the business and stop the coral flow. Likewise, if a farmer lost all of his stock due to a storm, the seller would hopefully be nice enough to return some of those specimens from stock to get the farmer back rolling with the same species.
For example, I love growing corals, but it will never surpass my day job money, so I'm not going to open up a "real" retail shop. I would rather sell to one large company or distributer at a reduced price to avoid the headachs. Then, like you said, I can specialize in just a couple species and dedicate more time to perfecting their specific craft so to speak.
This would also work as a failsafe for both the seller and farmer. A disaster in either location would not devistate the business and stop the coral flow. Likewise, if a farmer lost all of his stock due to a storm, the seller would hopefully be nice enough to return some of those specimens from stock to get the farmer back rolling with the same species.
Hamburglar , we also feel that this will speed up the research into sexual reproduction in captivity. With each one of the "growers" specializing in the type or particular genus/species of coral they will have a much better chance of having a spawing session happen. With time this could lead to better and more reliable data on specifis genus/species predictably spawning in captivity.
Whaledriver
New member
Contract basement farming sounds like it will balance issues out nicely. As far as quarantine issues go I think a well run basement system has a better chance than wild caught corals. This will get weeded out as the market corrects and responds to the final customer. You gotta like capitalism.
Yesterday I drove down to Tropicorium, first time there in 8 years, sure changed a lot, plus thea rea, its grown up so much I drove on by even though looking for it,
for those folks thinking of a fulltime operation I really uge going and taking a look, its an 'enclosed' greenhouse, just one side glazed, and the rest heavily insulated. His plywood tanks are about famous and worth looking at. I really suggest going and looking around before anyone lays any money out on any kind of a dedicated structure for corals.
It was real interesting seeing his breeding sharks, has three babys available, but the parents are 4' long and use all of the vat dedicated to them.
I think that the contract basement farming has more potential then most other systems and will let new growers build their operations, as well as gain experience in growing species and finding out which ones work best for them.
I strongly urge everyone not to borrow more money for building prop systems then what is involved in maxing out a credit card. I've seen too many folks get in and get out of aquaculture.
for those folks thinking of a fulltime operation I really uge going and taking a look, its an 'enclosed' greenhouse, just one side glazed, and the rest heavily insulated. His plywood tanks are about famous and worth looking at. I really suggest going and looking around before anyone lays any money out on any kind of a dedicated structure for corals.
It was real interesting seeing his breeding sharks, has three babys available, but the parents are 4' long and use all of the vat dedicated to them.
I think that the contract basement farming has more potential then most other systems and will let new growers build their operations, as well as gain experience in growing species and finding out which ones work best for them.
I strongly urge everyone not to borrow more money for building prop systems then what is involved in maxing out a credit card. I've seen too many folks get in and get out of aquaculture.
Jake brings up a good point about how much to spend, but does this still apply if the credit card being used is a AMEX gold card :eek1:
Another serious point that I am tackling right now is the following and I would like to see if anyone has any info on the validity of it.
1. Based on some discussion on the business plan thread I am looking at whether this sort of activity (Marine Ornamental Coral/Fish Farming) can be considered a "bona fide farm" activity. I am sure that this is subject to endless interpretation, but what do we all think. I have found a small amount of evidence that what is being proposed CAN be considered marine aquaculture. I have also found substantial information stating that aquaculture is indeed agriculture. Following this train of logic agriculture is a "bona fide farm" activity, so this leads me to believe it is so. The down point is that there is no licensing from my state aquaculture board so I am a little confused.
I am especially interested in how everyone in Florida has found things. I read that ORA is state certified, and Treeman lists that he is also. Are the certifications that are being referred to for marine ornamental aquaculture and would they apply to this sort of activity or are they more for the offshore collection and distribution type of activity
Another serious point that I am tackling right now is the following and I would like to see if anyone has any info on the validity of it.
1. Based on some discussion on the business plan thread I am looking at whether this sort of activity (Marine Ornamental Coral/Fish Farming) can be considered a "bona fide farm" activity. I am sure that this is subject to endless interpretation, but what do we all think. I have found a small amount of evidence that what is being proposed CAN be considered marine aquaculture. I have also found substantial information stating that aquaculture is indeed agriculture. Following this train of logic agriculture is a "bona fide farm" activity, so this leads me to believe it is so. The down point is that there is no licensing from my state aquaculture board so I am a little confused.
I am especially interested in how everyone in Florida has found things. I read that ORA is state certified, and Treeman lists that he is also. Are the certifications that are being referred to for marine ornamental aquaculture and would they apply to this sort of activity or are they more for the offshore collection and distribution type of activity
alexinfla
New member
raaden, here's a good link about becoming AC certified in Florida.
http://www.doacs.state.fl.us/onestop/aqua/aquacert.html
Many benefits and I'm waiting on my cert. currently.
Have fun!
http://www.doacs.state.fl.us/onestop/aqua/aquacert.html
Many benefits and I'm waiting on my cert. currently.
Have fun!
Whaledriver
New member
The links going from that thread are a rabbit hole of interesting info.
ctenophore
Premium Member
You have to be state certified for aquaculture in FL if you want to sell anything you grow for cash. There are a few rules to follow, like each coral must be on an obviously artificial base, in order to prove at a glance that the coral is not wild and/or a resold import.
The aquaculture division is actually extremely helpful for a government agency. The inspector that came to visit me was very informative and friendly. I was completely impressed compared to my experience with county permitting.
The aquaculture division is actually extremely helpful for a government agency. The inspector that came to visit me was very informative and friendly. I was completely impressed compared to my experience with county permitting.
Alex,
Excellent link that is exactly what I was looking for.
Cten,
I wish I could say the same for the DOA here in NC. They are so caught up in fish farming for food that most don't even know there would be any other reason to have a tank with water in it. I was speaking with one of the guys and he told me that growing fish for food was the only reason he could think of that a person would put water in a tank (I brought up swimming and he was not amused), anyway it ended up being encouraging and I think I am going to pursue this further and go with it as my method of operation. I may even at some point petition the dept to list coral aquaculture as an official activity.
Excellent link that is exactly what I was looking for.
Cten,
I wish I could say the same for the DOA here in NC. They are so caught up in fish farming for food that most don't even know there would be any other reason to have a tank with water in it. I was speaking with one of the guys and he told me that growing fish for food was the only reason he could think of that a person would put water in a tank (I brought up swimming and he was not amused), anyway it ended up being encouraging and I think I am going to pursue this further and go with it as my method of operation. I may even at some point petition the dept to list coral aquaculture as an official activity.
Ref costs, if your per kilowatt rates are higher then .38/kw you ought to be looking at species that dont require halides, and look at ways to bring in natural light without losing heat,
many anemones will do well with VHO's, dont bother with those that wont, a few sps will do alright under them but if you have high kw costs either stay with lowlight species or work out a way to bring in natural light. Dick Perrin does this in his building.
Raaden I am quite familiar with Carolina fish growing community, they have absolutely no humor when I point out that the most profitable and cost efficient system is that of Prof Rakocy in the Virgin Islands using aquaculture, Carolina did develop a good system but its not as efficient or cost effective as the U of VI one. Every once in awhile it just makes the day better to really rattle someones cage.
many anemones will do well with VHO's, dont bother with those that wont, a few sps will do alright under them but if you have high kw costs either stay with lowlight species or work out a way to bring in natural light. Dick Perrin does this in his building.
Raaden I am quite familiar with Carolina fish growing community, they have absolutely no humor when I point out that the most profitable and cost efficient system is that of Prof Rakocy in the Virgin Islands using aquaculture, Carolina did develop a good system but its not as efficient or cost effective as the U of VI one. Every once in awhile it just makes the day better to really rattle someones cage.
Jake,
I am with you on the rattling of cages theory, it really does make for an interesting afternoon of speaking to people. My issue with it was that if they are a gov agency concerned with Agriculture why am I having so much trouble getting them to even consider what I am doing. I can see if they are looking at me as competition with the existing facilities (read: loss of kickbacks) but what I plan to do has no affect on them. It was so comical at one point that someone told me I could not only not operate this sort of business because those are endangered species but even hinted that the ones that I had at my house could be violating a law.
On the bright side it ended well as I finally reached someone willing to listen and help me along. He pointed me to a couple of statutes as well as a specific section of the code that states that raising invertebrates (including marine) was considered aquaculture and coud be considered farming. So I choose to believe him
I am with you on the rattling of cages theory, it really does make for an interesting afternoon of speaking to people. My issue with it was that if they are a gov agency concerned with Agriculture why am I having so much trouble getting them to even consider what I am doing. I can see if they are looking at me as competition with the existing facilities (read: loss of kickbacks) but what I plan to do has no affect on them. It was so comical at one point that someone told me I could not only not operate this sort of business because those are endangered species but even hinted that the ones that I had at my house could be violating a law.
On the bright side it ended well as I finally reached someone willing to listen and help me along. He pointed me to a couple of statutes as well as a specific section of the code that states that raising invertebrates (including marine) was considered aquaculture and coud be considered farming. So I choose to believe him
Philip Root
Premium Member
So these are about 600 bucks for a tub?
Ref the tubs, are they more cost effective then the plywood rubber lined ones of Dick Perrins ?? I think his are around 16' or longer, and 5-6' wide. I am sure they wouldnt cost 600 to build, could be wrong.
Raaden, if someone said that to me I'd challenge him to get it done like right now ! You were talking to an absolute moron considering all the retailers in the state selling marines. Frankly that is one of the main reasons after grad school I left academia and went into commercial aquaculture. Way too many morons with head trips. There are a lot of good folks in academia, several have been a big help and several others good friends for a long time, but the twits are thicker then fleas on a summer day. Dont ever let the nitpickers discourage you. The truth is someone asking questions that they dont know anything about scares the s...t out of them.
The only really effective way to deal with these clowns is to go to their bosses and nail them down, when they refer you to the morons just nicely tell them that his subordinates didnt know anything about the subject and you wanted to talk to someone who did. The older I get the less tolerance for thse ***** I have.
Sometimes it helps to point out to some of these that the aquanic.net site has a large ornamental section so someone in the landgrant college industry thinks ornamentals are agricultural.
Raaden, if someone said that to me I'd challenge him to get it done like right now ! You were talking to an absolute moron considering all the retailers in the state selling marines. Frankly that is one of the main reasons after grad school I left academia and went into commercial aquaculture. Way too many morons with head trips. There are a lot of good folks in academia, several have been a big help and several others good friends for a long time, but the twits are thicker then fleas on a summer day. Dont ever let the nitpickers discourage you. The truth is someone asking questions that they dont know anything about scares the s...t out of them.
The only really effective way to deal with these clowns is to go to their bosses and nail them down, when they refer you to the morons just nicely tell them that his subordinates didnt know anything about the subject and you wanted to talk to someone who did. The older I get the less tolerance for thse ***** I have.
Sometimes it helps to point out to some of these that the aquanic.net site has a large ornamental section so someone in the landgrant college industry thinks ornamentals are agricultural.
Steven Pro
New member
Yep, around $600 each plus shipping for the 600 gallon tubs.
I am still trying to figure out costs for alternative size vats, along with depths.
Unless you are planning on halides, a 30" depth is hard to reach the bottom, Tropicorium has a plenum with a deep bed on top and then about a 20" depth. When building something comparable I am looking at a 24" depth. Even if using 1" marine ply at around 124 per 8' sheet its only about 450 for ply, add some oak 2bys for frame and bracing and you are around 500. The heavy plastic Dick uses would add another 50. Plumbing also adds on , but I didnt note any preplumbing on the fiberglass vats. Myself I wouldnt use the marine ply, I picked that just for comparsion as the most expensive alternative to build with, conventional exterior ply at 1" is considerably less. Using that I believe the same size would work out around 300 ea.
I am curious as I am thinking of 3-4 comparable sized vats for my garage, but at 24" depth. 8' by 4' by 2'. Any other ideas ? Costs ?
Unless you are planning on halides, a 30" depth is hard to reach the bottom, Tropicorium has a plenum with a deep bed on top and then about a 20" depth. When building something comparable I am looking at a 24" depth. Even if using 1" marine ply at around 124 per 8' sheet its only about 450 for ply, add some oak 2bys for frame and bracing and you are around 500. The heavy plastic Dick uses would add another 50. Plumbing also adds on , but I didnt note any preplumbing on the fiberglass vats. Myself I wouldnt use the marine ply, I picked that just for comparsion as the most expensive alternative to build with, conventional exterior ply at 1" is considerably less. Using that I believe the same size would work out around 300 ea.
I am curious as I am thinking of 3-4 comparable sized vats for my garage, but at 24" depth. 8' by 4' by 2'. Any other ideas ? Costs ?
