coralreefdoc
New member
Nice to see someone put this list together, with easy access, for all the uninformed/ignorant people out there who constantly kill specimens they had no business purchasing. Thanks Peter, good work
Difficult and Special Care Species List
- Thread starter Peter Eichler
- Start date
Wish I'd seen this list long ago. While I have had some losses with listed fish (notably, yellow tiles, twinspot goby, coral croucher, and golden angels), I've had lots of success with tamarins and leopard wrasses, lemmon peel angel, a mussel (I dose phyto often), pipes, dragonets... My golden angel was literally attacked to the death by a cole yellow eyed tang - it was pretty devastating to watch, and due to the amount of rock in my tank, I couldn't get it out. I'd also recommend adding the shrimp nose variety of fang blennies to the list. I have to note my own irresponsibility on this purchase - I'd seen many while diving in Indonesia - always perched in worm tubes, with a comical look on their faces - too cute. Well, despite their name, I thought I'd try one without ever looking them up. WWM suggests they are terrible tank mates with a reputation for nipping scales and flesh off other fish. Mine seems to be an exception, but doesn't appear to eat either, and I'm quite sure is starving to death.
I'm currently in a jam trying to get an orange spotted file to eat anything. Luckily its in an sps dominated tank, but I'd be happy even were going after polyps with a bit more zeal. Anyway, fingers crossed, it will all work out. If anyone has any suggestions (I've already posted in the OSFF thread), please shoot me a pm.
Anyway - thanks again so much for this list! It will be the first place I look from now on, before considering a new purchase. I'm always amazed at the quantity of difficult/impossible fish at my LFS's: BA ALWAYS has tons of garden eels - often with a casualty or two in the tank... Another LFS has had a bunch of nautilus recently (Don't they migrate several 100 m's in the water column every day?); Pinnate bat fish - so beautiful when little - so BIG when they grow up... Even ghost pipe fish... The latest craze seems to be crinoid feather stars. Other than Bongoshrimp, I've never heard of anyone keeping these successfully.
I'm currently in a jam trying to get an orange spotted file to eat anything. Luckily its in an sps dominated tank, but I'd be happy even were going after polyps with a bit more zeal. Anyway, fingers crossed, it will all work out. If anyone has any suggestions (I've already posted in the OSFF thread), please shoot me a pm.
Anyway - thanks again so much for this list! It will be the first place I look from now on, before considering a new purchase. I'm always amazed at the quantity of difficult/impossible fish at my LFS's: BA ALWAYS has tons of garden eels - often with a casualty or two in the tank... Another LFS has had a bunch of nautilus recently (Don't they migrate several 100 m's in the water column every day?); Pinnate bat fish - so beautiful when little - so BIG when they grow up... Even ghost pipe fish... The latest craze seems to be crinoid feather stars. Other than Bongoshrimp, I've never heard of anyone keeping these successfully.
Paul B
Premium Member
I took this picture in Bora Bora and long nose butterflies are rather common there and they have no trouble living with the very large fish of the South Pacific. They have their niche with their long nose and can pull food from deep holes. The wild ones in the picture seem to have longer snouts than the ones in our tanks. Maybe because those fish are not collected in Bora Bora being so remote from just about everywhere. I am sure their snouts kept evolving longer to get at those elusive worms because other fish there also have long snouts to get at that food but no where near as long as these butterflies.
They don't dive in the coral as that nose is very fragile and their jaw looks as if it would break just by thinking about diving in coral. If they damage that mouth, they die. They can not eat much at one time and must forage all day. They also can not tear food into pieces like many fish can. They try by shaking their heads but those tiny teeth are practically useless for tearing and I would imagine just by the physics of their anatomy that if they shake too hard they would crack their jaw.
These types of fish along with mandarins, seahorses and pipefish need to eat at least a few times a day, preferably all day but that is not usually possable in a captive reef which is why these types of fish are considered "difficult". It is not their fault that they are difficult, but ours. They live quite well if their needs are met especially in regard to food. If we were fed half a cow once a day and were not allowed to use our hands. And it was consumed by other creatures in a matter of seconds, we would also starve,
But if that cow was cut up in tiny pieces and re plenished every few minutes, we would not have a problem.
I personally feed my fish in the morning with some live worms. That is mainly to keep the long nose healthy and many of the other fish are not up yet because they can eat more food at one seating so they get along with the last meal in the afternoon.
Then I give the tank new born brine shrimp every day.
The shrimp are for the tiny bluestripe pipefish, the clown gobies and some corals like the gorgonians. The other fish eat them but I think they think of them like M&Ms because they are just too small to supply much nutrition.
If I did not feed worms and baby shrimp, I would not be able to keep these fish long enough for them to die of old age. I would not have a fish that I was not willing to care for. The fish we keep should not have to adapt to our world but we should at least try the best we can to have the world we create for them to be as close as possable to their world. We can not give them an ocean to swim in but we can and should at least supply them with what they need and what they recognize as food.
No matter how nutritious it is, if they don't recognize it as food, they will not eat it.
They don't dive in the coral as that nose is very fragile and their jaw looks as if it would break just by thinking about diving in coral. If they damage that mouth, they die. They can not eat much at one time and must forage all day. They also can not tear food into pieces like many fish can. They try by shaking their heads but those tiny teeth are practically useless for tearing and I would imagine just by the physics of their anatomy that if they shake too hard they would crack their jaw.
These types of fish along with mandarins, seahorses and pipefish need to eat at least a few times a day, preferably all day but that is not usually possable in a captive reef which is why these types of fish are considered "difficult". It is not their fault that they are difficult, but ours. They live quite well if their needs are met especially in regard to food. If we were fed half a cow once a day and were not allowed to use our hands. And it was consumed by other creatures in a matter of seconds, we would also starve,
But if that cow was cut up in tiny pieces and re plenished every few minutes, we would not have a problem.
I personally feed my fish in the morning with some live worms. That is mainly to keep the long nose healthy and many of the other fish are not up yet because they can eat more food at one seating so they get along with the last meal in the afternoon.
Then I give the tank new born brine shrimp every day.
The shrimp are for the tiny bluestripe pipefish, the clown gobies and some corals like the gorgonians. The other fish eat them but I think they think of them like M&Ms because they are just too small to supply much nutrition.
If I did not feed worms and baby shrimp, I would not be able to keep these fish long enough for them to die of old age. I would not have a fish that I was not willing to care for. The fish we keep should not have to adapt to our world but we should at least try the best we can to have the world we create for them to be as close as possable to their world. We can not give them an ocean to swim in but we can and should at least supply them with what they need and what they recognize as food.
No matter how nutritious it is, if they don't recognize it as food, they will not eat it.
I think the list needs a major upgrade. It is 4 years old and even when it was made, some of the information was subjective. There are quite a few fish on the list as should be avoided that now have great sucess in home aquaria.
Aquarist007
New member
It was updated about a year ago.
I know in the past that if you post your suggestions they will be acted upon by the op--that's what prompted the last update
orangegoby
New member
in the lists mentioning some fishes still collected with the use of drugs.
is this true? bit hard to imagine that.
is this true? bit hard to imagine that.
Aquarist007
New member
It is not against the law in Indonesia to still catch fish using cyanide. The problem with this is that it can cause liver damages in the fish which does not happen immediately. What we see happen alot is that a very seemily healthy fish lasts about 7 months or so and then for no reason stops eating, and withers away.
I purchase alot of fish,but I use a supplier that knows who and how the fish fish are collected in Indonesia.
Not only how the fish are collected but how they are treated is also important
One of the standard methods is to treat all new fish with copper. There are some fish species--especially tangs that do not do well over the long run if they have been treated with copper.
Newbie ????
Newbie ????
I just started my aquarium about 6 months ago. Originally I planned it to be a FO, but after doing a little research and seeing all that is available in the way of coral, I couldn't help myself!! I have a 55g tank with around 55lbs of live rock and about 3in of sand in the bottom. I now have two "nemo's", a fairy wrasse and a scooter blenny. I would like to add a few more fish to the mix but I am at a loss of what to get. I know I would like to have a blue hippo tang but I've been told to wait on him till the last fish add. I have moonlights hooked up and would like something that would be "color reactive" to these. Are there any fish that will pop in the moon light like my coral will? Any help or suggestions will be greatly appreciated! Thanks in advance.
Newbie ????
I just started my aquarium about 6 months ago. Originally I planned it to be a FO, but after doing a little research and seeing all that is available in the way of coral, I couldn't help myself!! I have a 55g tank with around 55lbs of live rock and about 3in of sand in the bottom. I now have two "nemo's", a fairy wrasse and a scooter blenny. I would like to add a few more fish to the mix but I am at a loss of what to get. I know I would like to have a blue hippo tang but I've been told to wait on him till the last fish add. I have moonlights hooked up and would like something that would be "color reactive" to these. Are there any fish that will pop in the moon light like my coral will? Any help or suggestions will be greatly appreciated! Thanks in advance.
I beg to differ for the Venustus Angelfish (Actually now cosidered Paracentropyge venustus).I currently have one in my reef. After a week he started eating live brine. Then (surprisingly) a week later started eating Pellets. Then small pieces of Frozen Mysis, and an Angelfish & Butterfly Frozen mix. He's been going for a while now. Its mostly about getting a healthy fish first.
NOTE: They are now about Paracentropyge angels. Venustus, Collini, Multifasciatus, and the Peppermint Angel (not too sure about the scientific name on that one). For a while most of those angels were considered Holacanthus. Collini, Multifasciatus are tough to get in healthy condition. While the peppermint is deepwater and rarely adjust to captivity. Also because the peppermint cost over $15,000 not many people have tried keeping it, so there is an imformation gap on that one.
As for the Regal: I have found they thrive if the are the first fish in the tank. Start them off eating Xenia (soft coral, it grows very fast). Then they will soon accept frozen. They rarely ever accept pellets.
NOTE: They are now about Paracentropyge angels. Venustus, Collini, Multifasciatus, and the Peppermint Angel (not too sure about the scientific name on that one). For a while most of those angels were considered Holacanthus. Collini, Multifasciatus are tough to get in healthy condition. While the peppermint is deepwater and rarely adjust to captivity. Also because the peppermint cost over $15,000 not many people have tried keeping it, so there is an imformation gap on that one.
As for the Regal: I have found they thrive if the are the first fish in the tank. Start them off eating Xenia (soft coral, it grows very fast). Then they will soon accept frozen. They rarely ever accept pellets.
Ron Reefman
Active member
Thanks for the list, I think it is very helpful.
That said, I just bought a 4"+ Mueller's Butterfly from NY Aquatics that guarantees they are eating frozen food before they ship. I have mine in a 20g QT with some LR and aiptasia. It's eating live black worms and clams but I haven't tried any frozen food yet, hoping it would start to eat some aiptasia (it's only been 5 days). Given that it eats small opened clams I'm wondering if it will bother the 2 Derasa clams I have in my DT?
I'm also wondering about trying to cultivate live black worms rather than buying them. Does anybody know a good website that would explain how/if that is done?
Thanks,
Ron
That said, I just bought a 4"+ Mueller's Butterfly from NY Aquatics that guarantees they are eating frozen food before they ship. I have mine in a 20g QT with some LR and aiptasia. It's eating live black worms and clams but I haven't tried any frozen food yet, hoping it would start to eat some aiptasia (it's only been 5 days). Given that it eats small opened clams I'm wondering if it will bother the 2 Derasa clams I have in my DT?
I'm also wondering about trying to cultivate live black worms rather than buying them. Does anybody know a good website that would explain how/if that is done?
Thanks,
Ron
keywestcoralboy
Executive water changer
I feel kinda cool/accomplished having specimens on th expert list.. Also south Florida is still using quinilidine legal or not I don't know...
Paul B
Premium Member
I keep them in this specially designed worm keeper. They multiply but not fast enough for my needs so I buy them about every two weeks. if I wanted a renewable supply I would have to build the thing about 6' long, which I have plans to do this winter.
It is just a trough or PVC fence post sliced in half and water from a small powerhead pumps water to the left side of the thing where it runs over the worms and back into the small tank. The pump is suspended in the tank so most of the worms do not get into the pump. There is a plastic container in the tank where the worms eventually fall into and I suck them out with a baster looking thing.
There is also eggcrate (not in the picture) in the tank to grow bacteris. Once it is cycled (which takes about 2 weeks) there is no problems and I only have to change the water every 2 or 3 weeks. But in the beginning you may have to change water twice a day.
It has been working for years.
doctorgori
New member
Pardon the thread deviation: but Paul, there was a LOT of discussion on keeping blackworms on a few forums a while back...I succesfully would regularly keep 1-2lbs in a 15gal clear tote, the main parameters were:
-I always changed about 25-50% of the water 1-2X a week using fully chlorined tap (a few people discovered some of the de-chlors actually killed the worms)
-I HEAVILY aerated the water
- I added/co-cultured moina with the worms (they thrived even with the chlorinated H2O changes)
-I added 1/2 raw potato
-the water was cool but not cold 60-70F
...anyway, pardon me...carry on
-I always changed about 25-50% of the water 1-2X a week using fully chlorined tap (a few people discovered some of the de-chlors actually killed the worms)
-I HEAVILY aerated the water
- I added/co-cultured moina with the worms (they thrived even with the chlorinated H2O changes)
-I added 1/2 raw potato
-the water was cool but not cold 60-70F
...anyway, pardon me...carry on
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