increasing prices on hard to keep fish

[Allmost]

I first saw Clarions being offered on a semi- regular basis back in 2003-ish and they were $300. Then their availability seemed to dry up a bit. Now, I believe Cortez Marine are the only people licensed to collect them and the price on them have skyrocketed.

yap exactly ... nothing about the fish changed, just the collection laws did.

same reason why gem tangs are so expensive ...

other fish, like peppermint angels ... you can see why they would have such a price tag, they live deep and not everyone can get to them.

 

[GreshamH]

I first saw Clarions being offered on a semi- regular basis back in 2003-ish and they were $300. Then their availability seemed to dry up a bit. Now, I believe Cortez Marine are the only people licensed to collect them and the price on them have skyrocketed.

huh, I worked for Cortez Marine back then and our Clarions (far and few between in 2003) were $2,500 wholesale. Prices dropped when Steve was able to take part in someone else's permit (Cortez Marine cannot by Mexican Law, have a collection license - they are importers of record for the shipments). The permit was someone else's and Steve didn't get all of them. They have dropped in price since 2003, that is for sure. But no where near the 90's low prices (I think you just missed it by a few years )

There as a smuggled shipment (he went to jail) in the mid 2000's, those went for pretty cheap but they were beat up.

 

[jnc914]

huh, I worked for Cortez Marine back then and our Clarions (far and few between in 2003) were $2,500 wholesale. Prices dropped when Steve was able to take part in someone else's permit (Cortez Marine cannot by Mexican Law, have a collection license - they are importers of record for the shipments). The permit was someone else's and Steve didn't get all of them. They have dropped in price since 2003, that is for sure. But no where near the 90's low prices (I think you just missed it by a few years )

There as a smuggled shipment (he went to jail) in the mid 2000's, those went for pretty cheap but they were beat up.

I don't recall if Cortez Marine was offering the one's I mentioned at that time, or even if the specimens offered were collected legally at the time. It may have even been prior to 2003, (maybe 2001, but definitely not in the 90's) when a friend that owns an LFS was offered 2 at $300 a piece. I don't know what the chain of wholesale was at that time. I was just getting into the hobby and didn't want to drop that kind of money being a newb. Now I wish I can get one at that price.

 

[atreis]

Fancy Yellow Tang - 1 million dollars. Exclusive! Get it now!

While high prices might make them more desirable (to some) it doesn't mean that more are sold at that high price. If it did, all fish would go for thousands. You think stores would pass that opportunity up?

 

[Ron99]

ORA sells captive bred dragonets but the prices are far higher. They come eating pellets etc. I guess the question is are they selling? I was willing to look at one as I have a psychedelic one that eats anything and wanted a spotted one too. I noticed one that was picking at the frozen mysis my LFS was feeding so took a chance and he's pigging out on frozen mysis and bloodworm so I'm lucky. Figure he may get onto pellets once he's out of quarantine and in the main tank with my psychedelic one and sees her eating pellets.

So some luck is involved but you can get them on frozen or pellets.

 

[atreis]

They very well could be selling - they're offering value-add for the additional money (the product isn't equivalent to the less expensive version), with the fish being easier to care for and already eating prepared foods. It would be interesting to know how they're sales compare with others.

I had a dragonet in my first tank (which had a huge refugium to supply food for it - it never did eat prepared foods). It was a fat and happy little bugger. Very interesting fish.

 

[igot2gats]

"Yep I just added this little beauty to my system."

"What is so special about that fish?"

"I don't know but the store charged me $2000.00 so I figured it must be rare or special."

True. But the idea behind raising prices would deter SOME people, and that's the entire concept behind it.

You have to take baby steps in order to change some things in the grand scheme of things.

Should prices be raised? It's not a bad idea. The problem is: How? If left up to the vendors, the first one that doesn't follow the directive wins everyone's business. The other vendors would be forced to lower their prices again in order to continue to sell those fish at all.

The only way to really have this happen and work is through centralized regulation (of some sort - there are various ways to go about it), which somehow I just don't see happening.

True. It would be very difficult to do this, but that's also why I proposed it: to see what others thought about the idea, and how realistic people thought it might be.

Keep the thoughts coming....this is turning out to be a better thread than I thought. :smokin:

 

[Moort82]

I think the point about CoC is a very good and valid one. If more care was taken over the handling of certain species and more effort made to get them feeding etc, then it should be fair to increase the price.
The truth is that many fish simply don't make it to a tank, let alone get the chance to recover. If this was improved then maybe the survival rate would increase.

I was told a tale by a wholesaler about the problems with unregulatored sellers. It was basically about a rep who was looking for fish. He visited a beach where various stalls were set up. They had a shaded covering so the seller didn't get to hot and had the fish pre-bagged. This particular rep enquired about a copperband. The seller didn't have one today but did remember he had one yesterday, to which he turned and went to look in the sea, apparently pulling out fish that had been discarded the day before.
Even if there is an ounce of truth in the story, the sheer lack of perceived value is a huge part of the problem imo.

 

[ca1ore]

ORA sells captive bred dragonets but the prices are far higher. They come eating pellets etc.

That's the DD model too. You pay a premium for a fish that has been pre-quarantined (at least partly) and is ostensibly eating prepared foods. Probability of longer-term survival is higher; therefore the price is higher. Seems to me DD items go pretty fast.

 

[ca1ore]

I still want to know how one would go about raising prices on these fish across the board.

Short of collusion, there is no way to do it really. Prices are a function of supply and demand. If a fish is difficult to keep in captivity, but common in the wild, then it will be relatively cheap.

 

[ifarmer]

Do you think prices should be raised on harder to keep fish such as Copperband Butterflys, Mandarins, Moorish Idols, etc., so that most people would have to think twice about buying them, thus a possible better survival rate? (Assuming only veteran reefers would buy a higher priced fish)...

Thoughts?

easy to say than done
just too many lfs, vendor and hobbyst

hopefully when you become the LFS owner. you can set this price at your store to prevent newbie from buying them.

 

[arnoldrew]

easy to say than done
just too many lfs, vendor and hobbyst

hopefully when you become the LFS owner. you can set this price at your store to prevent newbie from buying them.

Then they will go to another store with competitive pricing and buy it there...

 

[feh]

increasing prices on hard to keep fish

I don't feel that copperbands or mandarins are hard fish to keep. Like all fish you should not buy one if you don't know how to feed them. They live as long as most fish if you do a little research. Moorish idols are a different story and are considered difficult. I have had many of them and none for more than five years.
But copperbands and mandarins are fairly easy. If you are the type of person who buys a fish and feeds it flakes and pellets, there is an entire assortment of creatures that you will not be able to keep. Instead of raising the price, the LFSs should inform people how to keep that animal before they sell it to you. We all know that isn't going to happen because they are not in business to teach, they are in business to stay in business and if people keep buying mandarins and copperbands and kep trying to feed them flakes, pellets and seaweeds, the LFS will make a nice profit and it will be good for them. Unfortunately, not so for the fish.
Almost all the fish we keep should live at least ten years, even copperbands and mandarins. The only fish with a shorter lifespan are smaller fish like clown gobies, pipefish, seahorses and manta rays. Unless of course you have a large enough tank.

I'd love to have a moorish idle, but difficulty and tank size are an issue. I get attached to my "little friends" and completely agree, but you can't really rely on a LFS to educate people. People need to take initiative and research an animals needs before buying.

 

[spieszak]

Sometimes I think the opposite is more appropriate. The more folks that have a fish, the more easily their requirements become understood....
Then I read about noobs with fish I wouldn't want advanced folks to keep.. but still.. there is a tradeoff there.

 

[SGT_York]

I still want to know how one would go about raising prices on these fish across the board.

By executive order and Government price regulation. It's just a matter of time before The stalwart hand saves the hobby one fish at a time.

It's a shame how blind some of us are to the laws of economics and the protection of our liberties.

 

[Thales]

I am all for putting a premium on animals due to their general husbandry needs, danger, or unknown/threatened status in the wild. I would also be for livestock prices going up across the board (they aren't widgets after all).

The real question I think that is behind this thread is 'how do we get people to stop making irresponsible choices?'. Education hasn't worked in 30 years (that may be an organizational problem). Raising prices should stop a lot of the flash in the pan, unspecialized purchases. What other ideas to people have?

 

[Paul B]

The real question I think that is behind this thread is 'how do we get people to stop making irresponsible choices?'

That is never going to happen. Just look at all the threads that start out with:
I bought a ribbon eel and don't know what to feed it
I just got a Moorish Idol because it was eating flakes in the store
I have two mandarins and they are killing each other, and I don't know what they eat
How do I grow pods for my dragonettes?
My seahorses won't eat flakes
My kole tang's tail is sticking out of it's 5 gallon tank
Fish are disappearing, could it have something to do with my moray eel or 7" mantis?
Spots on everything, is this normal?
Can I keep fish in wet sawdust instead of seawater to save money?
My heater broke and I am using a propane torch to heat the fish individually, is that OK?
This is how many threads start. You know it, I know it and they know it.
This is not a recipe for learning anything.

 

[Thales]

That is never going to happen. Just look at all the threads that start out with:
I bought a ribbon eel and don't know what to feed it
I just got a Moorish Idol because it was eating flakes in the store
I have two mandarins and they are killing each other, and I don't know what they eat
How do I grow pods for my dragonettes?
My seahorses won't eat flakes
My kole tang's tail is sticking out of it's 5 gallon tank
Fish are disappearing, could it have something to do with my moray eel or 7" mantis?
Spots on everything, is this normal?
Can I keep fish in wet sawdust instead of seawater to save money?
My heater broke and I am using a propane torch to heat the fish individually, is that OK?
This is how many threads start. You know it, I know it and they know it.
This is not a recipe for learning anything.

If the hobby can't figure out how to deal with those problems, perhaps legislation could curtail some or most of that - if the bulk of the hobby is how you present them, perhaps such legislation is warranted.

 

[SGT_York]

Wow, your confidence in our legislation is mind boggling???

I'd prefer to keep my rights, rather than farm them out to incompetent appointed regulators.

If any species becomes at a slight risk then yes Government should intervene but it should keep it's incompetent nose out of individual rights.

 

[Thales]

Wow, your confidence in our legislation is mind boggling???

I don't believe I said anything about being confident in legislation, rather that if the hobby/industry can't get its ducks in a row, legislation might try to do it for us.

I'd prefer to keep my rights, rather than farm them out to incompetent appointed regulators.

If any species becomes at a slight risk then yes Government should intervene but it should keep it's incompetent nose out of individual rights.[/QUOTE]

What rights are you talking about?