Jebao Cross Flow Pump

karimwassef said:
Protein skimming (foam fractionation) existed for decades in water and sewage treatment as well as chemical manufacturing.

The gyre flow has been used in air for sectional cooling in industry for decades also. I personally haven't seen it in water, but that's not a stretch. It's like being the first person to wear shoes in water patenting "water shoes" - amazing invention protects your feet from sharp objects on reefs. Never seen before technology saves you from urchins, stingrays and sharp rocks!!! Completely different from any other protection gear you've ever seen before! Unless you've walked on land at some point... Maybe.
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True, true...and true lol !
But what it comes down to is patening a better mouse trap.
And the mouse trap in those cases were skimmers for the aquaria, and adapting a squirle cage furnace fan to aquaria use.
I'm not mad at all that some one wants paid for their version of a better mouse trap. Its called free enterprise for a reason.
It astonishes me that people would hate on others for trying to protect their idea. Again it doesn't have to be the entire model. You can paten a specific adaptation that works in conjunction with.
Hense the term a better mouse trap....

I wish them all luck honestly. The only thing that will come out of it for us is a better product and lower prices down the road.
 
slief said:
That's laughable. For every Tunze that fails, there are likely 500-1000 Jebaos that fail and I would bet it's at the high end.
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While I respect your knowledge in the hobby and the help you provide other hobbyists, come on. Independently of everything else going on in this thread, that is an absurd and totally unfounded statement, particularly coming from an employee of one of Jebao's competitors (regardless of high end vs low end market share).

I agree that they are more failure prone but to say 1000 fail for every one tunze without any supporting information is a little far fetched.
 
SkullV said:
I don't think they are teaming up with a Chinese corporation, I think they are just catering to CoralVue. At least for some time the Gyres that were being sold had the Reef Builders "best product" badge printed on them. Not sure if that is still the case, but there is clearly some kind of relationship there.
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Now that I can fully agree with.
Favorites are always played for kick backs.
 
slief said:
That's laughable. For every Tunze that fails, there are likely 500-1000 Jebaos that fail and I would bet it's at the high end. Having run Tunze power heads myself for many many years and having serviced and help replace dozens of Jebaos and seen more than half of those used locally (to me) fail including one catch fire and nearly burn a house down, and not seen a single Tunze fail in my circles, I know for fact you couldn't be more mistaken.

No, I don't tell anybody what to buy but we are talking about a company that doesn't give a damn about quality or business ethics, let alone support. Their only interest is taking your money regardless of their quality even if that means supplying power supplies with counterfeit or falsified UL labels when they first came to market. That doesn't concern you at all?? Anyhow, I'm sorry I even posted in this thread. I just hate seeing companies get ripped off and copying another companies design is just that.
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Well said!!!
 
karimwassef said:
Slief - I understand your position (and love your tank), but if there were thousands of failures, the Amazon website would be full of negative reviews. That's the case for plenty of other cheap vendors.

I've run half a dozen for a year and a half... They stall and need to be cleaned but all in service still.

I'm all for supporting the companies you personally have had success with and advocating strongly for them. But unless I have experienced these kinds of failure rates, I would stick to what I know or have data to support.

By the way, I feel the angst because in my professional career, I compete with copycats too. Some truly infringe.. Others are fast copiers with enough corners cut that many won't use them, but some will. I accept that, and focus on serving those who care about higher performance and quality. There's a market for the mediocre and it's a good thing. The exceptional also have a market and that's good too. But I wouldn't exaggerate and say that a mediocre product with a failure every year is the same as one failing every 30 days... It's just not true regardless of my desire to sell my product that works for a decade.
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I've read the Amazon reviews. For the RW series, 15% of them are 1 & 2 star right off the bat. Another 5% are 3 star and speak of the high failure rates. That's 20% right out of the gate that for the most part reflect high failure rates. Of the 4 and 5 star reviews, most are posted after next to no use. Some went back and edited their reviews but didn't change the star rating. Most people don't go back and modify their reviews. I am guilty of that myself.

I have a very good friend who has sold dozens of Jebao's locally in to customers whose aquariums he maintains and the failure rate on the RW's he has sold is pushing 50% in less than a year. Fortunately for him, he is now getting them from Reef Breeders who has been very good when it comes to service and keeps sending him replacements. I've gone out and helped trouble shoot enough of them myself to know their short comings. A number of friends as well as his service customers ran the WP series and the failure rates since they were released among my circles is pushing around 90%. I have one friend whose WP series power supply literally caught fire on a desk and the other whose power supply had an internal fire and melted. A Facebook friend of mine has a controller that when powered up with the pump connected sends sparks out the back. I am waiting for a video of that one. I also know a couple others whose Apex probes we're going bonkers and that was narrowed down to stray voltage from Jebao's. I've been in this hobby for about 30 years now. I've owned a lot of different brands of equipment in that time and while there was some shoddy stuff over the years that has graced my doorstep, these Jebaos are among the highest failing products I have seen and handled to date. While I may be opinionated and even stubborn. I'll admit to having my convictions but I also call it like I see it as I am honest and transparent. I support pretty much any quality product out there but when I have friends who nearly lost their homes as a result of quality issues and have seen the failure rates first hand, I speak up.
 
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Having worked in customer service a long time, I know most ppl just don't complain, they also don't re buy. So I would guess most ppl just don't complain on Amazon. Saying that I will also admit that it goes the other way too. Most positive don't share as well.

Also I am not sure if Jebao is a competitor of RE or not. I also think Slief is a non paid consumer service advocator for them.
He speaks very highly of Tunze, who makes a product more closely to RE.

I haven't owned any Jebao products but I do know a few guys local to me who use them and have had them for a year or two. Some clean them monthly others don't.

Corey
 
slief said:
I've read the reviews. 15% of them are 1 & 2 star right off the bat. Of the 4 and 5 star reviews, most are posted after next to no use. Some went back and edited their reviews but didn't change the star rating. Most people don't go back and modify their reviews. I am guilty of that myself.

I have a very good friend who has sold dozens of Jebao's locally in to customers whose aquariums he maintains and the failure rate on the RW's he has sold is pushing 50% in less than a year. Fortunately for him, he is now getting them from Reef Breeders who has been very good when it comes to service and keeps sending him replacements. I've gone out and helped trouble shoot enough of them myself to know their short comings. A number of friends as well as his service customers ran the WP series and the failure rates since they were released among my circles is pushing around 90%. I have one friend whose WP series power supply literally caught fire on a desk and the other whose power supply had an internal fire and melted. A Facebook friend of mine has a controller that when powered up with the pump connected sends sparks out the back. I am waiting for a video of that one. I also know a couple others whose Apex probes we're going bonkers and that was narrowed down to stray voltage from Jebao's. I've been in this hobby for about 30 years now. I've owned a lot of different brands of equipment in that time and while there was some shoddy stuff over the years that has graced my doorstep, these Jebaos are among the highest failing products I have seen and handled to date. While I may be opinionated and even stubborn. I'll admit to having my convictions but I also call it like I see it as I am honest and transparent. I support pretty much any quality product out there but when I have friends who nearly lost their homes as a result of quality issues and have seen the failure rates first hand, I speak up.
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I can respect that. I'm the same way lol !
 
biecacka said:
Having worked in customer service a long time, I know most ppl just don't complain, they also don't re buy. So I would guess most ppl just don't complain on Amazon. Saying that I will also admit that it goes the other way too. Most positive don't share as well.

Also I am not sure if Jebao is a competitor of RE or not. I also think Slief is a non paid consumer service advocator for them.
He speaks very highly of Tunze, who makes a product more closely to RE.

I haven't owned any Jebao products but I do know a few guys local to me who use them and have had them for a year or two. Some clean them monthly others don't.

Corey
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I don't really considered Jebao a competitor (I suppose they are with their DC pumps) and even if they were, it wouldn't make a damn bit of difference. I support Ecotech, I support Abyzz, Tuzne, Life Reef, Coralvue and others who are competitors. I even recommend their products to people depending on their application.

In this particular case, this is about a clone of the Gyre and the other pumps I brought up, were certainly not competitive products to anything that RE makes.
 
SkullV said:
While I respect your knowledge in the hobby and the help you provide other hobbyists, come on. Independently of everything else going on in this thread, that is an absurd and totally unfounded statement, particularly coming from an employee of one of Jebao's competitors (regardless of high end vs low end market share).

I agree that they are more failure prone but to say 1000 fail for every one tunze without any supporting information is a little far fetched.
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I don't see this as a competitive product by any means. We are talking about power heads and Gyres and not skimmers let alone return pumps. If I worked for Tunze, that would be a different story.

While I did preface my statement by saying "likely 500-1000", let me put it another way. Can we agree that most Tunze Steam pumps last 4 years or more?? Can we agree that most WP pumps didn't last 3 years let alone more? I think the Jebao thread on this forum speaks for itself. Everybody I know with Tunze's has had them running without failure and many have had them for several years or more. Mine are going on 5 years now and I cleaned them for the first time in 3 years last month. They looked like coraline rocks but still ran great. I've seen first hand the failure rates on the other pumps. So I don't think my numbers are as far fetched as you might think. Especially if you extend that to 3 years or more. At least not the 500 figure and it's a hell of a lot more accurate than the 1:1 "for every Jebao that fails there is a high end one that fails" statement made previously.
 
slief said:
I don't see this as a competitive product by any means. We are talking about power heads and Gyres and not skimmers let alone return pumps. If I worked for Tunze, that would be a different story.

While I did preface my statement by saying "likely 500-1000", let me put it another way. Can we agree that most Tunze Steam pumps last 4 years or more?? Can we agree that most WP pumps didn't last 3 years let alone more? I think the Jebao thread on this forum speaks for itself. Everybody I know with Tunze's has had them running without failure and many have had them for several years or more. Mine are going on 5 years now and I cleaned them for the first time in 3 years last month. They looked like coraline rocks but still ran great. I've seen first hand the failure rates on the other pumps. So I don't think my numbers are as far fetched as you might think. Especially if you extend that to 3 years or more. At least not the 500 figure and it's a hell of a lot more accurate than the 1:1 "for every Jebao that fails there is a high end one that fails" statement made previously.
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Its just not gonna work on here .... The big brother paranoia is to strong lol !
Advice or knowledge from anyone other then a consumer can not possibly be of use here ! What are you thinking !
(Joking !)
 
chilli_reef said:
Its just not gonna work on here .... The big brother paranoia is to strong lol !
Advice or knowledge from anyone other then a consumer can not possibly be of use here ! What are you thinking !
(Joking !)
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LOL.. I hear ya.. The funny thing is that I am the epitome of a consumer. I've tried it all and I paid for everything I own including my Royal Exclusiv gear. Nothing that I am currently running was given to me. I bought every single last part just like every other consumer out there. My income certainly doesn't come from RE either. I own and operate a computer manufacturing business that is my full time job and primary source of income. While I do wear a nice title for Royal Exclusiv, my contributions in terms of time are minimal and I will always maintain an unbiased position and support any quality product including those from competitors. Some people don't want to see it that way but it's very true.
 
Hyperbole on either extreme is a waste. Without third party collected data over a large enough control population, how can anyone claim a failure rate. The poll thread on this site allowed voting was 70% positive and 30% voted for junk... And even that's not statistically significant.

Tunze is better than Jebao. If I could get a comparable Tunze for only 2x, I would. Beyond that, I'm ok with a mediocre product because I can design a redundant solution with it.

It's a question of what's good enough and how much premium an exceptional product can charge.
 
karimwassef said:
Hyperbole on either extreme is a waste. Without third party collected data over a large enough control population, how can anyone claim a failure rate. The poll thread on this site allowed voting was 70% positive and 30% voted for junk... And even that's not statistically significant.

Tunze is better than Jebao. If I could get a comparable Tunze for only 2x, I would. Beyond that, I'm ok with a mediocre product because I can design a redundant solution with it.

It's a question of what's good enough and how much premium an exceptional product can charge.
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I can certainly agree with that. I have however seen extremely high failure rates first hand locally so I do stand by my most of my numbers. Perhaps the 500-1000:1 was a stretch without knowing how many of each were sold. Either way, we both know it's not anywhere near the 1:1 that was eluded to previously and when my friends from my own neighborhood have fires as a result, I am going to send out the red flags because that is seriously scary crap.
 
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slief said:
That's laughable. For every Tunze that fails, there are likely 500-1000 Jebaos that fail
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Just so everyone knows, this is made up information by a representative of a competing company. Royal Exclusiv should seriously rethink their approach. this is just pathetic.
 
Most of this information on us thread is "made up" to some extent as no one knows the real numbers of fail or success. Nor do we know when this Jebao is coming out. But there is always ppl taking personal shots at others. For this reason I will no longer follow this thread, contribute to this thread, or anything else related to it. It is sad because it can be educational or helpful when it stays on course.

Corey
 
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