LED Color Aesthetics: The Emperor's got no clothes. Or does he?

[Rosscopeco]

Anyone??? I really only need help on the 10000-16000K question.

Hi Floyd,
I used the two 30w 16k leads that came out of my old maxspects with a mix of 48 3w leds . So far so good as far as colour goes.
Of course each situation is going to be different, but unless you feel like experimenting, I'd say just stick with either the14k or 16k depending on your temperature preferences. You'll have no trouble altering the final look with the 3w leds and will get more control that way.
It's also worth noting that the colour temp appears slightly different as you dim them although that might just be my drivers.
HTH.

 

[curlykid]

has anyone made a full spectrum fixture yet? I mean with cool white, warm white, royal blue, blue, indigo, uv, magenta, red, deep red, cyan, and green. This way we get full spectrum coverage, which is the main problem with LED's.

 

[Rosscopeco]

has anyone made a full spectrum fixture yet? I mean with cool white, warm white, royal blue, blue, indigo, uv, magenta, red, deep red, cyan, and green. This way we get full spectrum coverage, which is the main problem with LED's.

I'm unsure as to why you'd need all those. Many of the leds have a certain amount of overlap which makes for a fairly broad colour range.
What exactly would a fixture with all those leds achieve?

 

[Floyd R Turbo]

has anyone made a full spectrum fixture yet?

That's pretty much what I'm going for. That seems to be the purpose of this thread. So while I've done plenty of LED build for Algae Scrubbers, I have not cut my teeth on display tank lighting yet. I had purchased a whole bunch of RB and CW a while back then sold them to another guy in the club because of need for funds, then found this thread and I considered myself saved from the pain of discovering the RB/CW issues...

 

[curlykid]

Would love to see it when you make it. keep us posted.

 

[mm.reefs]

I'm unsure as to why you'd need all those. Many of the leds have a certain amount of overlap which makes for a fairly broad colour range.
What exactly would a fixture with all those leds achieve?

No offense, but seriously??? A lamp with all the possible LED's in it (colors/brands) is what may give excellent answers for the questions in this thread. I'm sure the big guns manufacturers have done it. This can help determine what combinations/ratios are good, not so good and the worst that are not needed at all.

I know it's hard to afford such a lamp, but maybe people that live nearby can spend one day together and combine whatever LED's/drivers they have and run some test with them, annotating many good/bad combinations/ratios found. At least I would do it! I even have a name for such a project... Frankenstlamp! :lol2:

I definitly would love to see/test such lamp!

 

[Rosscopeco]

Some of us have been playing around with different leds for awhile now. The results from just adding every available colour seem to be fairly conclusive so far. Many of the colours make for a poor visual effect.
By all means keep experimenting. You may stumble upon something unexpected.
I'm pretty sure when I posted about the possible use of the 2800k led chips in my fixture, I was shot down. The chips ended up being used and I'm happy with the look. Each to there own I guess.

In short, people have already tried adding lots of different coloured leds.

 

[trueblackpercula]

Guys,

Since we're talking about LED color aesthetics here, I'd like to share with you the color bulbs I've chosen for my tank - you can read more about my tank on my tank thread list below in my signature.

I was using 8xT5HO as a guideline when I picked the color, I want to have a complete blue spectrum covering from 400nm to 500nm, as well as a tint of red from red bulbs to give that KZ Fuji Purple look.

This is the color I've chosen, note that there's a typo, it should read 405nm violet not 503nm, 503nm is cyan.

Here's a FTS,

Simply amazing can you PM me with more details of your lighting?

 

[NCMBM]

I have read this all and may be even more confused.

I have a 1:1 6500k/460nm dimmable fixture that has shown great coral growth but also is quite effective at growing macroalgae. My thoughts were the red in the 6500k white was the cause of the algae growth.

My next light is fully programmable with the three channels that can be set for 6 way points. I used 6 6500k, 8 10k and 11 14k on the first channel and 4 440nm, 10 470nm and 13 460nm on the second channel. The third channel is moonlights.

It would appear from reading this thread that more 6500k or lower kelvin combined with RB is a better look but what about algae production?

I am currently considering adding red and violet but am unsure. I like the color I have currently but have no idea of the par. Good color blend even with 60 degree optics at close range.

I am building a larger fishroom/propagation area and need to get 10 lights on order soon. What changes to my configuration makes the most sense?

Also, what are the kelvin numbers for neutral white, warm white, royal blue or blue?
Thanks, great thread

 

[Rosscopeco]

It would appear from reading this thread that more 6500k or lower kelvin combined with RB is a better look but what about algae production?
As far as I know, the whole algea loving lights thing is a load of rubbish. Get the tank balanced and healthy competition should get the better of the algea. Maybe I've just been lucky but algae only grows over corals in my refugium, sump come frag tank. It's never stopped the frags growing mind you.

I am currently considering adding red and violet but am unsure. I like the color I have currently but have no idea of the par. Good color blend even with 60 degree optics at close range.
I used violets in my build and like the slight tweak it gives things. It's subtle but I like it and I haven't had any negative reactions within the tank.
Also, what are the kelvin numbers for neutral white, warm white, royal blue or blue?
Thanks, great thread
You really need to list the LED brand/ model and bin for this info. Sooo many different LEDs out there.

All in all, I'd say I'm still pretty happy with my mixed colour LED light. If you like you're current mix and it grows corals the way you want then stick with it.

 

[Rosscopeco]

It would appear from reading this thread that more 6500k or lower kelvin combined with RB is a better look but what about algae production?
As far as I know, the whole algea loving lights thing is a load of rubbish. Get the tank balanced and healthy competition should get the better of the algea. Maybe I've just been lucky but algae only grows over corals in my refugium, sump come frag tank. It's never stopped the frags growing mind you.

I am currently considering adding red and violet but am unsure. I like the color I have currently but have no idea of the par. Good color blend even with 60 degree optics at close range.
I used violets in my build and like the slight tweak it gives things. It's subtle but I like it and I haven't had any negative reactions within the tank.
Also, what are the kelvin numbers for neutral white, warm white, royal blue or blue?
Thanks, great thread
You really need to list the LED brand/ model and bin for this info. Sooo many different LEDs out there.

All in all, I'd say I'm still pretty happy with my mixed colour LED light. If you like you're current mix and it grows corals the way you want then stick with it.
:beer:

 

[Ron Reefman]

I'd say that in general, when viewed in person, most LED lit tanks don't look as visually bright as MH or T5 lit tanks.

I think that may have been right some time ago. Alot of diy led setups were short on light due to not using enough leds. And some of the high end led fixtures like the EcoTech Radion are so expensive, you hope they put out a lot of light, and they do, but in a pretty small footprint and who wants to spend $3000 to put 4 of them over a 180g tank.

I just took down a 4 bulb, 250w MH with 2 10K and 2 14K bulbs (also 4 52w t5 actinics) and replaced them with 2 of the EverGrow IT2080 led fixtures from China (bought in a small group buy for $340 each, delivered). They are awesome.

The MH had a PAR of 200-225 at the sand 22" deep. The leds are hung in the same place and at the same height off the water, and at 22" deep the PAR is 275-300. If you don't think these are as bright as MH, your eyes are lying to you.

At 100% power on both channels I get a bright white light that I would say is a 10K MH but without the yellow tint. It looks so much cleaner than the MH, but it also looks a bit fake (almost too white). I snorkel the reefs in the Florida Keys 3-6 long weekends a year, I know what natural sunlight looks like. And I can make it more blue by reducing the power to the white channel until I get a nice 14K MH look. Of course all blue and no white is windex, but the corals that like to glow look incredible! The moonlights can be dimmed as well. The built in timer/controller isn't as sophisticated as the ecotech radion, but it does what I want it to do and it's WAY easier to use. And the leds are completely choosen by me, I pick the colora and I pick where to put them in the layout. From the time I placed the order for 24 lights, it took a week to get them all custom made and 6 days to get them from China to Florida and that includes 2 days at UPS in Louisville of Christmas!

In case you can't tell yet, I think these lights are great and so do the other 3 guys who got the same lights (2 220g DT's, my 180g DT and 1 120g DT).

 

[reefriot13]

I have a evergrow d120 over my 60gal lps tank and love it. I have 2 red and 2 green along with 6 UV and think the next one I order will only have 1 red and green. I have some red flame algae that has taken off like made since putting in there. I will be trying out the IT unit next

Sent from my MB611 using Tapatalk 2

 

[bhazard451]

The near perfect blend still hasn't been made yet. Cree or other led chip makers would need to create a reef preferred version of their leds to allow the same spectrum that multiple color leds produce, without using multiple colored leds. Cree doesn't even have a good violet yet, so that may be awhile.

After trying tons of options, the best seems to be multiple channels having whites, blues, violets, reds, and cyans separate.

Either Cool whites mixed with Warm whites like Maxspect does, or neutral whites with a few ww (high CRI preferred) covers a lot of spectrum on its own, and should be run at a higher power. Same for violets and blues.

The reds and cyan provide a visual bump in color and look great, but if running at the same power as the blue/white, algae starts taking off. Running these at like 20% is really all you need from what I can tell. Very few fixtures have the ability to do this, and the ones that do are usually really expensive.

The Radion Pro comes closest to this, using 2 yellow leds at 590nm to supplement the effect of a warm white without the extra red/green a WW led has. The fact that everyone loved how it looked at MACNA pretty much confirms that this will start becoming the norm (until Reef specific leds appear). I'm trying some 590nm leds myself in my latest DIY fixture to see the effect.

 

[reefriot13]

I totally agree. Not having a 3rd channel for the color kinda sucks. Some members of our club have bought a lot of these through a group buy and got lots of spare LEDs and have been changing them out looking for the right mix. They started with 4 reds and 2 greens and have replaced 2 red with more blue and 1 green with another UV. If I do order another I am going to get the controlled one and see how much more they would charge to add another channel. As it was they were able to get an upgraded heatsink and optics with the spare LEDs at no extra charge. Only time will tell with these. I tried placing black electrical tape over 1 red and 1 green but couldn't tell a differance. So far any algae growth has been nill compared to the MH.

Sent from my MB611 using Tapatalk 2

 

[stancfii]

Has anyone tried a 3:1 of XT-E (RB):Luxeon ES 2700k (WW)?

I'm considering rebuilding my current 44 LED fixture that is 30RB/7CW/7NW to a 32 LED fixture run at a higher amperage in order to increase efficiency and drop a driver. It will be for a standard 40B.

I feel I should be impressed by the 95CRI rating of the Luxeon ES, and that it should prevent the need for adding any other colors individually... is this line of thinking correct?

If anything, perhaps I should swap the CW in my current fixture for the Luxeon WW to just see what happens?

 

[zachts]

Has anyone tried a 3:1 of XT-E (RB):Luxeon ES 2700k (WW)?

I'm considering rebuilding my current 44 LED fixture that is 30RB/7CW/7NW to a 32 LED fixture run at a higher amperage in order to increase efficiency and drop a driver. It will be for a standard 40B.

I feel I should be impressed by the 95CRI rating of the Luxeon ES, and that it should prevent the need for adding any other colors individually... is this line of thinking correct?

If anything, perhaps I should swap the CW in my current fixture for the Luxeon WW to just see what happens?

I did 2:1 for about an hour but it was very purple looking to me. the colors looked great and were all very saturated, except for greens from macro algea which looked kinda gray as they usually do under LED. I'm doing a 50/50 5000K and 2700k luxeon combo right now that is not bad but maybe needs a little more of the 2700k. they are on the same string so I can't dial it in to confirm

you might be able to offset the purple effect by using a very small amount of green to whiten the look? I considered it but have not had time to try.

Now I'm leaning toward remote phosphor for my whites, modeled off the Philips L prize bulb (you change lenses not LEDs to get different shades of white)........only mine will be color temp controllable, unlike the philips bulb... :lol2:

 

[stancfii]

Thanks! I decided to go ahead and order 8 of the luxeon 2700k. I'll start out by replacing the 7 cw xp-g in my current fixture.

 

[tomservo]

RE: NW and WW, I can at least offer my experiences.. I currently have a 2 tank system, a 15" cube on top and a 10g frag tank below.. lights are as follows:

5 channel multichip above

DIY light below: 4100k 85 CRI Citizen 60w surrounded by 30 450nm blue and 8 420nm.

Guess which one grows algae like crazy when both are adjusted to similar PAR levels and color temps? So far there's not a lot to say about coral color as all I have are different things top and bottom except for some green mushrooms, which are comparable in color. The NW is outcompeting my algae scrubber for nutrients!

The jury won't be in on coral color until I get these things ramped up to some decent PAR levels; my friend has similar citizen based lights over his DT (120 long) and they are at like 350 PAR, he has a pink/purple frogspawn that boggles the mind.

 

[stancfii]

I took out the 7CW tonight and replaced them with 7 Luxeon 2700k. I'm not blown away, but I am very happy with the difference, and it is noticeable. I almost wish I had bought enough to swap out the 7 NW I have in there, but am still considering going from 44 to 32 led on my 40b -- a plan that would have me using only luxeon 2700k for whites. I don't feel a need to add red or green any longer, but think I need to add something in the 420nm and in the 460-480nm ranges. Anyone have experience w the true violet from Steve's LEDs ?