gregrocks79
Less talk, more rock!
Well the trap definitely works. But it caught the wrong two fish haha
Leopard Wrasse Primer
- Thread starter BrianD
- Start date
Has anyone been able to identify why seemingly fat healthy Choati wrasses die after a few days in our tanks.I'm 1 for 3 with them so far..Why a non stressed eating fish dies so quickly has me wondering what is missing.Is there any documented evidence that intestinal parasites are a cause?Having read this thread,it seems the Prazipro treated specimens are dying too.They are such a beautiful fish,I hate seeing them die without any clue to the cause.
Ralph ATL
Formerly mysterybox
here's a quote from Kevin Kohen:
But here is some great info on Leopard Wrasses by Kevin in that thread:
Like other Macropharyngodon spp. these fishes can and do suffer from improper handling along with a multitude of other stressors that can affect them down the road. This genus of Labroid fishes requires very delicate handling, as they are very skittish and highly sensitive to light upon arrival, and must be acclimated properly to temperature, specific gravity, and pH. They can go into shock very easily and are extremely sensitive to fluctuations in temperature, water chemistry and dissolved oxygen levels.
I have stated previously in numerous threads here on RC as well as in an article in the first ReefLife Magazine, this species surely is not for everyone. If one has the experience needed to properly acclimate and care for this species, as well as the proper environment to maintain them, and is willing and able to put the time in to feed these fishes relentlessly for several weeks until they are fully settled into their new home, they can do well long term.
Once acclimated properly, the best scenario is to maintain them in an old, very well established habitat that has a 2"-4" layer fine sand to meet their burrowing instincts so they feel comfortable. Keeping them stress free with no harassment from other tank mates or from their owner will allow them time to adjust to their new environment and settle in with the least amount of stress.
Assuming one obtains quality fishes that have been harvested, handled and conditioned properly; the next challenging step is feeding and proper diet. These fishes hunt for food almost constantly but will soon rely more and more on supplemented foods. Feeding these fishes throughout the day with the proper foods along with maintaining them in very stable, clean water conditions at temperatures of 76 to 77 degrees is a must, as they do not fare well at elevated water temperatures. Supplementation of small frozen mysis as well as live and frozen artemia is critical. This can be accomplished by enriching freshly thawed and drained frozen food in Amino Acid and other vitamin supplements. There are plenty of quality enrichment products available and their use at every feeding is extremely important to help boost the fishes' immune system and allows them to regain their strength.
Last but not least, and in my opinion the most critical, is having the proper time to feed them throughout the day for the first few weeks or even for the first month. Offering very small quantities of food ten or more times per day will provide them with the nutrition needed to get them through the critical first few weeks of their transition into their new environment.
These are the steps that have worked well for me over the years, and all of them are critical, playing an important role in determining how this species will fare long term in the home aquaria.
Regards,
__________________
Kevin Kohen
Director of LiveAquaria
Drs. Foster and Smith
iamwrasseman
New member
i have tried them nearly twenty times and have had them come dead in the bag up to keeping them for 5 or 6 months only to find them laying on the bottom dead but looking fat and happy . one major observation of mine has been even the slightest of water parameter fluctuations in any way . i think the biggest is alk or ph changes as i have spoken with others on this subject and just the change in water chemistry from killing a few aptasia anemonies has been the observed cause . i have always used prazipro almost every time i introduced my choati's and have spoken with a few wholesalers that told me i was wasting my time and moneyas they fend most parasites off in the wild and will do so in my aquarium but i'm not 100% convinced of this .
they are just so delicate IMO that long term aquarium life is just a very ,very low percentage achievement . mine have usually eaten with in a few days and then always ate with such gusto that they always finished with their stomachs visually full for sure .
i tried variety of foods to the point where they are eating a more diverse meal than i am it seems .i have found that a QT tank was certain death within a week usually and then one time when i got home from far away late at night i just dumped three into my reef tank with absolutely no acclimation what so ever and they all survived for a pretty long time . if memory serves me correctly one died in the first couple of weeks and the other two made it for months but they did die within a day of each other which brings me bact to slight water parameter swings . i did a water change one day and the next one was dead then the other perished the next evening . they need to be stress free , well fed and stable IMO. i worked a few blocks from my house and was going home four times a day to feed along with being able to feed any time in the evening .maybe to much feedings ? i really dont think so but could be .
i have been able to keep all other leopards and tamarins which seem to be the more delicate wrasses that i have found . i currently have four leopards ,two different types and they are at least two years old but i know if i get a couple of choati's they will not make it till Christmas and i dont know exactly why. i have all but given up on this particular fish because of this .
i have spent a few thousand dollars on them and have none to show to this day .okay i am rambling and have no good info left except i have come to the conclusion that its alk,ph related but do admit that i may be missing something .
the collection process and shipping related issues just cant be the total problem as i have purchased them from at least fifteen different avenues .i have done this with super clean tanks right down to less than good times of my tank up keep .
i wish i could figure it out as they are my 100% favorite fish and i have all but thrown in the towel on them .if anyone can enlighten me i would do anything necessary and believe me i have tried almost everything imaginable and failed .
any way i wish you the best but i do believe they are one fish that should be left in the ocean ?
i have contacted Kevin on these fish a few years ago and have tried everything under the sun which i have redundantly stated but i have failed . there IS SOMETHING I AM MISSING HERE and with i could figure it all out some day.
best wishes to all that try
they are just so delicate IMO that long term aquarium life is just a very ,very low percentage achievement . mine have usually eaten with in a few days and then always ate with such gusto that they always finished with their stomachs visually full for sure .
i tried variety of foods to the point where they are eating a more diverse meal than i am it seems .i have found that a QT tank was certain death within a week usually and then one time when i got home from far away late at night i just dumped three into my reef tank with absolutely no acclimation what so ever and they all survived for a pretty long time . if memory serves me correctly one died in the first couple of weeks and the other two made it for months but they did die within a day of each other which brings me bact to slight water parameter swings . i did a water change one day and the next one was dead then the other perished the next evening . they need to be stress free , well fed and stable IMO. i worked a few blocks from my house and was going home four times a day to feed along with being able to feed any time in the evening .maybe to much feedings ? i really dont think so but could be .
i have been able to keep all other leopards and tamarins which seem to be the more delicate wrasses that i have found . i currently have four leopards ,two different types and they are at least two years old but i know if i get a couple of choati's they will not make it till Christmas and i dont know exactly why. i have all but given up on this particular fish because of this .
i have spent a few thousand dollars on them and have none to show to this day .okay i am rambling and have no good info left except i have come to the conclusion that its alk,ph related but do admit that i may be missing something .
the collection process and shipping related issues just cant be the total problem as i have purchased them from at least fifteen different avenues .i have done this with super clean tanks right down to less than good times of my tank up keep .
i wish i could figure it out as they are my 100% favorite fish and i have all but thrown in the towel on them .if anyone can enlighten me i would do anything necessary and believe me i have tried almost everything imaginable and failed .
any way i wish you the best but i do believe they are one fish that should be left in the ocean ?
i have contacted Kevin on these fish a few years ago and have tried everything under the sun which i have redundantly stated but i have failed . there IS SOMETHING I AM MISSING HERE and with i could figure it all out some day.
best wishes to all that try
I feel your pain IAmwrasseman.I lost my 3rd Choati today.I'm 0/3 now.It not only hurts the pocket book,I feel a real sense of loss because I love these fish so much and have tried so hard to keep them alive.I've read every post on the Internet regarding these fish.
You may have something with the ph theory.There was an unusually high ph spike due to my ATO releasing some kalkwasser that had settled at the bottom of the freshwater holding tank.I was monitoring it on my Ipad Neptune Apex app.My first thought was of the Choati.I rushed to the aquarium to see what was going on and there she was doing her death dance.The ph corrected within an hour but she died a couple hours later.(All other fish including an M. Bipartitus leopard were fine.)My first Choati lasted 2 days,never ate.Second was a male that lasted 3 weeks,died fat.The third ,a female,was my favorite and hurt the most to see die.She had so much personality and ate everything.
I really can't think of anything to do differently .I would estimate the percentage of Choatis that survive from the ocean to aquarium is very small.And of those,the ones that last more than a few days to months even less.Is it worth it to capture 100 Choatis so maybe 3 or 4 can live a year or more in captivity?
There are success stories out there,which give me hope .I may try again,but it is stressful having worry so much about a $250 fish becoming an open buffet for my clean up crew at any moment my water parameters fluctuate .
You may have something with the ph theory.There was an unusually high ph spike due to my ATO releasing some kalkwasser that had settled at the bottom of the freshwater holding tank.I was monitoring it on my Ipad Neptune Apex app.My first thought was of the Choati.I rushed to the aquarium to see what was going on and there she was doing her death dance.The ph corrected within an hour but she died a couple hours later.(All other fish including an M. Bipartitus leopard were fine.)My first Choati lasted 2 days,never ate.Second was a male that lasted 3 weeks,died fat.The third ,a female,was my favorite and hurt the most to see die.She had so much personality and ate everything.
I really can't think of anything to do differently .I would estimate the percentage of Choatis that survive from the ocean to aquarium is very small.And of those,the ones that last more than a few days to months even less.Is it worth it to capture 100 Choatis so maybe 3 or 4 can live a year or more in captivity?
There are success stories out there,which give me hope .I may try again,but it is stressful having worry so much about a $250 fish becoming an open buffet for my clean up crew at any moment my water parameters fluctuate .
gregrocks79
Less talk, more rock!
Well I dunno how, but I caught her. I think she knew I was helping her. Lot her in the fuge for now and trying to get rid of the Sixline. Although she's doin a nice job of cleaning the fuge up haha
If the Choati really is that sensitive to the things that will inevitably, though perhaps only occasionally, happen in our tanks, then perhaps they should not be attempted. A friend of mine, who has successfully kept both Meleagris and Bipartitus in his reef tank, won't even try Choati's anymore because he cannot keep them alive.
Saw an awesome trio of Choati (big ones, 2 1/2 to 3 inches) at my LFS this weekend, but at $125 per, and the lousy survival rate, I managed to resist.
Saw an awesome trio of Choati (big ones, 2 1/2 to 3 inches) at my LFS this weekend, but at $125 per, and the lousy survival rate, I managed to resist.
gregrocks79
Less talk, more rock!
Leopard Wrasse Primer
What a beast. Survived being attacked by the Sixline, getting put into the fuge and back into the display! And look, she's smiling!! Maybe she needs a bf! Haha
How hard would it be to add a male? Or do I have to get another female and let her morph?!
What a beast. Survived being attacked by the Sixline, getting put into the fuge and back into the display! And look, she's smiling!! Maybe she needs a bf! Haha
How hard would it be to add a male? Or do I have to get another female and let her morph?!
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My 3 years old wrasse got eaten by my Red Haddoni carpet.
gregrocks79
Less talk, more rock!
Oh no!!!!
gregrocks79
Less talk, more rock!
So I went to the LFS and saw this wonderful young male! Eating a ton and totally saying take me home!
Acclimated him and put him in. He snacked and looked around for about 10 min and went to sleep! Hope he and my blue star become pals! Haha
Sorry for the crappy pic but for now...
Acclimated him and put him in. He snacked and looked around for about 10 min and went to sleep! Hope he and my blue star become pals! Haha
Sorry for the crappy pic but for now...
gregrocks79
Less talk, more rock!
Leopard Wrasse Primer
Sleepy
Everyone lined up for the greeting lol
She's checking him out lol
Bf gf already?! Cute
Sleepy
Everyone lined up for the greeting lol
She's checking him out lol
Bf gf already?! Cute
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gregrocks79
Less talk, more rock!
Yes, I know. Ones a blue star leopard (female) and the new one is an ornate leopard (male) don't care if they breed or anything. They are already swimming together and he seems very happy.
gregrocks79
Less talk, more rock!
That's awesome!! One good lookin male ya got!
How many do you have in the tank??
How many do you have in the tank??
evolved
Wrasse Nut
Very well then.
My subtle point is you shouldn't then expect them to interact as a pair of the same species would. Yes, they'll probably coexist fine, but the behavior you'll see is different.
And that's not even a terminal state; he has quite a ways to go yet.
gregrocks79
Less talk, more rock!
Leopard Wrasse Primer
I never expect anything even with the same species! Shoot, my paired onyx clown took on my perc. So any thing is game.
I do appreciate your information, thank you.
So far they seem to be getting along
I never expect anything even with the same species! Shoot, my paired onyx clown took on my perc. So any thing is game.
I do appreciate your information, thank you.
So far they seem to be getting along
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