Serious Disscussion of Zoanthids Growth

[islandcreation]

Good topic. I collect zoas/palys but I generally tend to go with Palys. Why, there are many reasons. Zoas are small, unless target feeding is a daily job. Palys grab food and close up most zoas don't close up even if target feed. I see zoas being more affected by nudibranches rather than palys (thicker skin?).

For growth, I feel the main factor that I don't think anyone mentioned (I didn't read the whole thread) is the diffrence from a wild colony to a aquacultured. I have seen my devils armor aquacultured grow like crazy, then I got a colony of fire and ice (wild) take awhile to get adjusted then open up with slow growth. Their not even rare zoas and the growth rate was slower than slow. I can vouch for this numerous times. But then again I did get a colony of ked redds to produce pretty fast after being in the tank for 6 months but that was a rare scenario.
For placement, I have great luck with a good flow (meaning the heads are moving gently)! Then I target them with a mixture of cyclopeeze, mysis, and brine shrimp! Anytime I trade or sell a frag pack individuals are always talking about how big the heads are that they got. Some of my colonies palys heads are as big as a nickel. But thats based on target feeding 5 days a week.

 

[giantbicycle]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11159174#post11159174 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by islandcreation
Good topic. I collect zoas/palys but I generally tend to go with Palys. Why, there are many reasons. Zoas are small, unless target feeding is a daily job. Palys grab food and close up most zoas don't close up even if target feed. I see zoas being more affected by nudibranches rather than palys (thicker skin?).

For growth, I feel the main factor that I don't think anyone mentioned (I didn't read the whole thread) is the diffrence from a wild colony to a aquacultured. I have seen my devils armor aquacultured grow like crazy, then I got a colony of fire and ice (wild) take awhile to get adjusted then open up with slow growth. Their not even rare zoas and the growth rate was slower than slow. I can vouch for this numerous times. But then again I did get a colony of ked redds to produce pretty fast after being in the tank for 6 months but that was a rare scenario.
For placement, I have great luck with a good flow (meaning the heads are moving gently)! Then I target them with a mixture of cyclopeeze, mysis, and brine shrimp! Anytime I trade or sell a frag pack individuals are always talking about how big the heads are that they got. Some of my colonies palys heads are as big as a nickel. But thats based on target feeding 5 days a week.

Thanks for the inputs.

Its a new finding on aquaculture V.S wild, i only thought that applies to SPS. If that is true, why not the mother coloney of the wild specimen will be fragged and we aquaculture it resulting in faster growth, so the factor that spurs it to growth is agian fragging. Right? :rollface: The sureface of the new rock, the space it has and such .

Gosh, a nickel. thats huge.

Target feeding, Guys , please try that .

 

[islandcreation]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11163120#post11163120 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by giantbicycle
Thanks for the inputs.

Its a new finding on aquaculture V.S wild, i only thought that applies to SPS. If that is true, why not the mother coloney of the wild specimen will be fragged and we aquaculture it resulting in faster growth, so the factor that spurs it to growth is agian fragging. Right? :rollface: The sureface of the new rock, the space it has and such .

Gosh, a nickel. thats huge.

Target feeding, Guys , please try that .

Yeah, I have great feedback as a seller/trader on here and have compliments on the size of the heads. For the wild VS aquacultured... its just the fact that some colonies are harder to adjust to a repilcated environment. Fragging doesn't necesarly mean faster growth, it all pends on that particular zoa/paly. Like all of the exotic ones grow slow. I've had PPE that were snails and AOG's but then again my devils armor grow like weeds. And I guess the most exotic is the orange people eater which grow 1.5-2 heads a year? Thats what I read and heard.

 

[goldmaniac]

well, I replaced my 175w HQI's, and my RPE's went from stretching 3/4" to the light to back down to the 1/4". the bulbs I replaced were my first metal halide bulbs, as I got my hood last year, and I was surprised just how much brighter new bulbs were.

I thought certain wavelengths wore out in old bulbs, but didn't expect the brightness to reduce so much over time. wow! the more light seems to make my little RPE's happier.

MY QUESTION:

I replaced my 20k bulbs with 15k's, not only do I not like the new wavelength, but I hear that lower temperature bulbs diminishes color, even if they encourage growth. Is that right?
I'm happy with my old acitinic PC / 20k metal halide combo, will this combo be best for color?

The RPE's I bought from a seller here at RC are much more dull and drab than the pictures I saw, i thought the 20k's just weren't showing the true red.. but maybe not. They're not much more colorful under 15k. I wanted a more balanced display of color, I thought the 20k's were too blue to show nice oranges and reds, but now I'm thinking that's not the case.

thanks,

G.

thanks,

g.

 

[islandcreation]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11173049#post11173049 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by goldmaniac
well, I replaced my 175w HQI's, and my RPE's went from stretching 3/4" to the light to back down to the 1/4". the bulbs I replaced were my first metal halide bulbs, as I got my hood last year, and I was surprised just how much brighter new bulbs were.

I thought certain wavelengths wore out in old bulbs, but didn't expect the brightness to reduce so much over time. wow! the more light seems to make my little RPE's happier.

MY QUESTION:

I replaced my 20k bulbs with 15k's, not only do I not like the new wavelength, but I hear that lower temperature bulbs diminishes color, even if they encourage growth. Is that right?
I'm happy with my old acitinic PC / 20k metal halide combo, will this combo be best for color?

The RPE's I bought from a seller here at RC are much more dull and drab than the pictures I saw, i thought the 20k's just weren't showing the true red.. but maybe not. They're not much more colorful under 15k. I wanted a more balanced display of color, I thought the 20k's were too blue to show nice oranges and reds, but now I'm thinking that's not the case.

thanks,

G.

thanks,

g.

You hit it on the spot when you switched the bulbs first hand. I feel 20k's are sufficient enough to not needing PC's (most people use PC's for the actinic for both color or to slowly get their corals to acclimate to light before the halides come on). Overall, from what I witnessed along with a good amount od inidividuals are 20K's are a good choise as far as halides. But then again I have a 14K phoenix HQI which is by FAR the best balance I have seen! I have heard testing for magnesium can have an affect on the coloration of zoa/paly's if anyone knows please chim in.... Thanks

 

[goldmaniac]

maybe I got crap bulbs, but I have an Odyssea hood that states that the metal halide bulbs - HQI's - are 175 watt. I'm starting to doubt that, as I can't find replacements ANYWHERE.

I think the (only) bulbs I found online (15k's) look like crap. Everything looks green, my Flame Angel doesn't pop orange much more than with the 20k, the skunk cleaner shimp don't pop any more than before and the RPE's are still drab and dull.

Does anyone know if Odyssea is making up 175w bulbs? I'd love ot be able to choose among 150w bulbs... Does the Phoenix 14k show lots of color? I'm really surprised how poor these 15k bulbs look.

thanks again,
G.

 

[islandcreation]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11174191#post11174191 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by goldmaniac
maybe I got crap bulbs, but I have an Odyssea hood that states that the metal halide bulbs - HQI's - are 175 watt. I'm starting to doubt that, as I can't find replacements ANYWHERE.

I think the (only) bulbs I found online (15k's) look like crap. Everything looks green, my Flame Angel doesn't pop orange much more than with the 20k, the skunk cleaner shimp don't pop any more than before and the RPE's are still drab and dull.

Does anyone know if Odyssea is making up 175w bulbs? I'd love ot be able to choose among 150w bulbs... Does the Phoenix 14k show lots of color? I'm really surprised how poor these 15k bulbs look.

thanks again,
G.

Sorry to talk crap about odyssea but their really not good. I'll be honest, at first I couldn't afford anything and I did have a odyssey. Actually I had a Odysea recently on my jbj 24 gallon cube that was 250 watts with the phoenix. I heard the wiring on a odysea isn't electrically complient to US standards (maybe a rumor if anyone knows more please educate us). I love the phoenix, it a perfect blend of blue and white Basically a light blue ocean water. But he get what you pay for the bulb was $70+ dollars online. I compared the light with what the oddysea came with a 250 20k compared to the 250 14k phoenix, can you say night and day.

Try ebay for 175 hqi's? Cheap and maybe a nicer color...

 

[goldmaniac]

I started another thread, specifically asking about whether double ended HQI 175w bulbs exist. I got a number of answers saying they don't.

So last night I got two Phoenix 14k's online, which shipping, for $105. I'm eager to see the difference.

I'm wary of these Odyssea hoods; I have everything double-insulated with GFI's and UPS circuit breakers. I think I'll be ok if something disasterous happens.

AND if that happens, I'll just have to explain to the wife that I just HAVE to get the 250w icecap ballasts and some pendants ASAP..

G.

 

[islandcreation]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=11180534#post11180534 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by goldmaniac
I started another thread, specifically asking about whether double ended HQI 175w bulbs exist. I got a number of answers saying they don't.

So last night I got two Phoenix 14k's online, which shipping, for $105. I'm eager to see the difference.

I'm wary of these Odyssea hoods; I have everything double-insulated with GFI's and UPS circuit breakers. I think I'll be ok if something disasterous happens.

AND if that happens, I'll just have to explain to the wife that I just HAVE to get the 250w icecap ballasts and some pendants ASAP..

G.

I'm kind of lost here... So do you have 175 HQI's? And when you got the phoenix bulbs were they 175's? I

 

[goldmaniac]

No, I got confirmation, on the other thread, by about 5 different RC'ers that there's never been any such thing as 175 HQI, double-ended, and that the mfgr (Odyssea) is probably making it up. Maybe to sell their own brand of "175 watt" HQI bulbs, I don't know. I don't want to speculate.

the phoenix 14k's I got were 150 watt. I should have specified that. sorry. Everything, and i mean EVERYTHING, I read about Phoenix 14k's have been positive, and they're definitely going to be at least better than the crap Odyssea "175 watt" HQI bulbs I bought last week.

G.

SO my color concerns with my new zoa's coming in (hopefully tomorrow) are probably a thing of the past. Or at least I'll stop thinking/obsessing about it.

 

[goldmaniac]

Sorry for the thread hijack.

Now back to zoa growth..

 

[aquaman3680]

Not to get off topic but one of the things that I would like to hear about and see if any one has done it is putting two different color zoas next to eachother and would they morph between the two colors? I have noticed different variations within the colony. How do you promote the variations within a colony?

Just wondering.

Matt

 

[gregrocks79]

I got these bad boys (saphire blue zoos) 3 weeks ago cuz I saw this thread and was curious. They were a 3 poly frag and after 2 weeks it already has 7 total now! The pic was taken 2 days after and you can already see a baby has grown. My EE, sunshine, and atomic green were bigger frags and are growing too but my blues have exploded. For some reason my sunshines closed up for a week or so then I saw a thread about treating with vitamin c. WOW after a few days they have opened and are looking good... More about that post later when I put new pics up..

Anyways I think smaller frags explode more because of the fight or flight reaction.

saphire blues
<a href="http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v646/bekkenmusic/?action=view&current=bluezoos4.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v646/bekkenmusic/bluezoos4.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

sunshine zoos
<a href="http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v646/bekkenmusic/?action=view&current=zoos.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v646/bekkenmusic/zoos.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

eagle eyes
<a href="http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v646/bekkenmusic/?action=view&current=l_001b0688620d8f8fe18b77d80812732e.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v646/bekkenmusic/l_001b0688620d8f8fe18b77d80812732e.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

atomic green zoos
<a href="http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v646/bekkenmusic/?action=view&current=atomicgreenzoos.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v646/bekkenmusic/atomicgreenzoos.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

 

[gregrocks79]

forgot to mention...

all my zoos are at the bottom of my tank with good amount of flow, (I have a hydro flo making current) stock 12g nano dlx lighting, and I feed them every few days a half capful of phyto...

here's my FTS pic
<a href="http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v646/bekkenmusic/?action=view&current=FTS.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v646/bekkenmusic/FTS.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

thanks!

 

[giantbicycle]

Dont mind sharing whats the VItamin C does to aids in this thread of ours?

 

[isistius]

this thread is great. i'm gonna keep it going. i had all of my zoas/palys under 150w hqi's. for the most part, there was very little growth at all. probably due to the watteage of the bulbs and the depth they were placed in the tank. (135g - so approx. 24" from the light source) in june of last year, i built a frag tank. 30g long with a 5x39w t5 fixture over it. in november i decided to break down my 135 and condese that and the frag tank into my 54 corner.

i transferred all of my zoas into the frag tank in november. after light acclimating them for 3 weeks, i noticed that:
1) they were much more open
2) the colors under the mh couldn't even compare to the vividness of them under the t5's
3) several of the colonies started to rapidly grow.

i don't ahve a polyp count, but i will give you 1 prime example. i received a frag of zombie eyes from a friend, maybe 10 polyps. i had them in the 135 for probably close to 3-4 months before moving them into the frag tank. there was NO noticable growth in that time frame. since the move, the colony has probably increased in size 4x. so that means that i have over 40 polyps in a 8 week period, with new growth almost daily.

ime (which doesn't account or much - lol) i am attributing the growth to light. light light light light light.

 

[75pxatr]

I started the thread zoanthids out of control. See the photos in my photo gallery by clicking the camera icon.

You can see rapid growth of the green and brown zoas covering the gravel and moving up the glass.

I would agree with the post that the more you have the faster they multiply. this has been my experience.

Mine seem to prefer strong water movement and some types are much more prolific than others.

I do not feed either. I have noticed that some are very sensitive to lower alk levels.

 

[giantbicycle]

Thanks isistius and 75pxaytr for the inputs.

Yes, isistius, Lights are one of the major furl in zoas growing which aids them to spread, but if this combinayion is used in colleberation with other fast aiding fuels (Which are still widly unkonwn) , won't our rare and special zoas grow like under the influence of steriods? That will be great .. Lets put MH as one of the main fuel now.What specs of MH are u using btw? Watts?Kelvin ?? How is the height from the light source to the zoas like?Thanks


75pxaytr, I've taken a look at your pics and i jus go "WOW" . Im dreaming if that could happen on the bluies , rare gem in my tank. . Low alk , Taken note.


How about Magnesium in relation to the growth zoas ppls out there?

 

[isistius]

i'm not using mh. i switched from 2x150w mh over my 135 to 5x39w t5 over my frag/corner. the output of t5's blows any 150w and almost every 250w out of the water.

so i'm running:

1 - 3500k
1 - 6500k
3 - actinic

i want to change the bulbs out to better suit my likes in terms of coloration. right now, the bulbs that are on there were chosen for growth and not coloration (hence the reason they were on my frag tank) i want a more blueish tint, so i'm eventually going to switch all my bulbs out for the following:

2 - 12000k
3 - 18000k

my light sit about 5 inches off the top of the tank, so maybe 6 in above the water. the zoas i mentioned above are maybe 15 - 18" from the lights. i have zoas/palys placed throughout the tank, and they are all doing well.

 

[Sambooty]

What discerns a Zoathanid over a Palythoa? Trying to ID all my softies in my tank. Do Palys always have the longer stem to them? Do zoas have the long stem sometimes too?

Pretty sure the one colony I have is a paly colony, also do paly colonies tend to grow more in a clump style kinda all connected to the middle?