Silent and Failsafe Overflow System

[uncleof6]

I am planning a beananimal c2c on a 90g, I have done a ton of reading and research, and somewhere along the line I read that the bulkhead for the full siphon should be 1/2" lower than the open and emerg channels, is this correct?

Thanks

It is okay to do so, but really, with a properly set up system, it should not be necessary. Usually starting issues can be traced to one, or more, modifications of the design. The most common, involving the open channel, is the air inlet tube too low in the system in relation to the dry emergency.

 

[cal_stir]

Thanks for the quick responses, I'm going to stick to beans original design and put the 3 bulkheads on the same horizontal line.

 

[06bug]

Good information. I'm in the process of building a tank and this thread helped make up my mind on the overflow decision.

 

[d2mini]

What size bulkheads and what size pipe would be best for a 200g tank?

 

[uncleof6]

1.5" all around, good to 3500 gph.

 

[d2mini]

Thanks!

 

[medicreefer]

This thread is so full of great information. I turn to it time and time again as I plan out my future tank builds, and I point my friends to it when they talk about planning they're overflows/sumps/tanks.

I have a basic question regarding pipe sizing for a smaller, lower-flow system... The system will be a 50 gallon display with 20 gallon sump. I'm planning on only running about 5x the DT volume through the sump (so max about 250gph). My plan was originally to use three 1" bulkheads for the overflow, using 1" plumbing for the siphon and main drain and 1.25" for the open channel. The problem is that with my estimated drop from the DT to the sump, a 1" siphon will have to be valved down by about two-thirds to restrict the siphon flow to about 250 gph. I'm worried that this may cause a "weak point" in the system where things may clog in the nearly-shut gate valve. I know this is what the emergency drain is for but it still concerns me. Am I worrying for nothing? Have other people throttled down their siphon line on a 1" gate valve by closing it so much? An alternative would be to use .75" plumbing for the siphon and 1" for the open channel. This way the gate valve would only be about half closed. What do the experts think about this? Is a 1" open channel big enough to avoid gurgling and allow free-flowing water down the sides of the pipe?

Thanks.

 

[uncleof6]

I don't really want to get into a flow rate debate, but unless you are running an under gravel filter, the 5x rule of thumb does not apply, because that is where, in its antiquity, it came from; also that would be 5x the system volume, not the DT volume. More reasonable for a marine system, is 10x the system volume--through the sump.

Your question presents an interesting enigma, because 3/4" pipe is a significant plug risk in and of itself. Also, a 1" open channel, is almost to the point of useless. Due to these two considerations, it is hard to recommend that either be used, with the minimums being 1" and 1.25" respectively. The 3/4" would handle the small flow rates, needing some valve closure as well, to raise the water level in the overflow, I suspect equaling more restriction in the line, smaller pipe, though a larger percent opening of the valve--which is smaller to begin with, without getting down to the thousandths of an inch

 

[medicreefer]

Thanks for the speedy reply!

I appreciate the help re the plumbing. I guess my best bet is to go with 1" siphon and emergency drains and a 1.5" open channel. All my bulkheads will be 1" but that shouldn't be a problem since Bean's was done that way.

With regards to flow rate, I know this isn't the right thread to debate flow issues, but I wanted to clarify that I will have a total of 10-20x flow within the DT. I'm just limiting the sump flow to 5x. The theory being not to greatly outpace my skimmer. There are many recommendations in various threads from reefers I respect that recommend a flow rate through the sump that matches the skimmer capacity. Of course I also greatly respect yours and Bean's opinions (have read many of them) so I'm open to your counter opinions with respect to this issue. Also, with regards to flow rate I'm worried that 500gph through my 20-30g sump will cause a great deal of noise and splashing within my tank.

 

[kblake]

Bulkhead and pipe sizes for a 40 breeder tank?

Bulkhead and pipe sizes for a 40 breeder tank?

Anyone have bulkhead and pipe size (overflow pipes) recommendations for a 40 breeder tank?

Been following this thread and everyone seems to have 75gallon and up.

Any input is appreciated. Thanks

 

[rrasco]

I have a 40 breeder drilled with 1" all around. I'm not done with the build yet though, so it's never been run. Put a gate valve on the siphon and you can dial it back as much or as little as you want.

 

[uncleof6]

Thanks for the speedy reply!

I appreciate the help re the plumbing. I guess my best bet is to go with 1" siphon and emergency drains and a 1.5" open channel. All my bulkheads will be 1" but that shouldn't be a problem since Bean's was done that way.

With regards to flow rate, I know this isn't the right thread to debate flow issues, but I wanted to clarify that I will have a total of 10-20x flow within the DT. I'm just limiting the sump flow to 5x. The theory being not to greatly outpace my skimmer. There are many recommendations in various threads from reefers I respect that recommend a flow rate through the sump that matches the skimmer capacity. Of course I also greatly respect yours and Bean's opinions (have read many of them) so I'm open to your counter opinions with respect to this issue. Also, with regards to flow rate I'm worried that 500gph through my 20-30g sump will cause a great deal of noise and splashing within my tank.

On the noise issue, this is a question of good sump design, and probably the biggest offender, the drain system--however you have that covered using a siphon system.

500 gph is nothing in terms of flow rate, as many of us are running magnitudes above that. Some of it certainly involves the size of the sump (width.) But with 500 gph needing roughly 8"+ of weir length, a 20-30 gallon should not present much of a noise issue, provided the "waterfall" does not drop a great distance.

 

[uncleof6]

I have a 40 breeder drilled with 1" all around. I'm not done with the build yet though, so it's never been run. Put a gate valve on the siphon and you can dial it back as much or as little as you want.

Put a valve on the pump outlet, and you can dial it back as much or as little as you want. On the siphon, there is one sweet spot, (water level in the overflow) and you have to hit it--within reason of course, for the system to function properly, at the given pump outlet setting.

 

[rrasco]

Put a valve on the pump outlet, and you can dial it back as much or as little as you want. On the siphon, there is one sweet spot, (water level in the overflow) and you have to hit it--within reason of course, for the system to function properly, at the given pump outlet setting.

I was referring to matching the siphon rate to be just under that of the overflow rate; to hit that sweet spot where the OC is barely utilized. I use the gate valve on my siphon to match whatever my flow rate is. What happens when you try to use a 600gph pump on 1" siphon? You have to be able to limit what is being siphoned.

 

[lostmyz]

I am sure my answer is probably buried somewhere in this 179 page thread...lol. But..

I have a 72 gal bow front and I currently have a Glass-holes.com 700gph overflow box with a 1.5" bulk head. I wish that I had seen this thread before I drilled and filled my tank. I want to know if it is possible to modify this system somehow to work with my current overflow system. Any suggestions or if someone knows where the answer is buried in this thread please let me know the page

 

[uncleof6]

LOL I feel your pain. Honest injun it is not that far back in the thread. Will see what I can pull up.

 

[Tim Duncan]

Sorry if sound like a noob, but I'm trying to find out if this thread has a description of how to install the Bean Animal in an external overflow? Am I in the right place, and if so, can anyone tell me where to find it?

 

[lostmyz]

This is my idea will it work?

Sorry for the crud photoshop image...

 

[uncleof6]

This is my idea will it work?

Sorry for the crud photoshop image...

Yes it will work, however, I see the hole causing some noise. That is the basic idea however. To loosely quote bean from over a year ago: if it were me, I would do it the right way, rather than try to make something you already have work. In other words start from scratch.


<a href="http://s655.photobucket.com/albums/uu274/uncleof6/?action=view&current=Untitled-12.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i655.photobucket.com/albums/uu274/uncleof6/Untitled-12.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

 

[uncleof6]

Sorry if sound like a noob, but I'm trying to find out if this thread has a description of how to install the Bean Animal in an external overflow? Am I in the right place, and if so, can anyone tell me where to find it?

Yes right bean time, right bean station. Start by looking at my last post. Difference between this idea and the original, is the standpipes go in the external box, rather than through the tank wall, only the water moves through the tank wall.