Silent and Failsafe Overflow System

[Joel_155]

Hey all.. so im sure this is mentioned somewhere in this gigantic thread but can this be adopted to a tank with dual corner overflows? Also my overflow has two 1/2 inch holes (meant for the return... im going over the back) and one 1 inch hole. Can this style work with this type of overflow? Im currently running dursos and they work good but im always looking to improve.
Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

 

[BeanAnimal]

Joel,

For starters, turn off that silly tapatalk signature...

The setup is described numerous times in this thread, but essentially you will need to either connect the overflow boxes with a coast-to-coast wier or you will need to fill one of them with sand (nice small DSB) to prevent the water in it from stagnating. One box would have the open channel (large bullhead) and siphon (small) and the other box would have the emergency (large bulkhead) and return (small).

Spend a bit of time browsing the thread and you will find a lot more detail of the how and why

 

[jdcook72]

Bean, good point. Will throttle back a little on the siphon.

I don't think the point that Bean was making is that you should dial down the siphon but that the system should work without requiring the siphon is full open. If the plumbing is the same for all three channels and the siphon must be wide open + some volume in open channel utilized to keep from overflowing, that indicates that there may not be enough capacity in the plumbing to handle an emergency situation where one or more pipes becomes blocked. I think the fail safe features of the system, while not even required for normal operation, are one of the things Bean identifies as a distinguishing aspect of it.

If the system is properly adjusted and that requires the siphon to be dialed down, that means the single pipe has more than enough capacity to handle the system's full turnover and in the event two of three pipes is blocked the remaining one should be able to prevent an over flow by itself.

 

[Spaced Cowboy]

Joel,

For starters, turn off that silly tapatalk signature...

The setup is described numerous times in this thread, but essentially you will need to either connect the overflow boxes with a coast-to-coast wier or you will need to fill one of them with sand (nice small DSB) to prevent the water in it from stagnating. One box would have the open channel (large bullhead) and siphon (small) and the other box would have the emergency (large bulkhead) and return (small).

Spend a bit of time browsing the thread and you will find a lot more detail of the how and why

I just answered re: my experience with a dual-overflow Bean system in the "Dual Herbi" thread, but the key post was this one. You can search for my hande in the thread to see what I was thinking of at the time.

One point I'd mention is that putting sand in one of the overflows to make a deep sand bed does not mean you don't have to provide flow over that sand bed. In other words, it doesn't solve the stagnant water problem, it's just something you can do while you solve it. In the end I didn't go DSB, and my solution (see the above linked post) had the right return branching off with lok-line, with one branch forcing water flow into the overflow.

Bottom line: it works well, with caveats. See the post

Simon

 

[d2mini]

I don't think the point that Bean was making is that you should dial down the siphon but that the system should work without requiring the siphon is full open. If the plumbing is the same for all three channels and the siphon must be wide open + some volume in open channel utilized to keep from overflowing, that indicates that there may not be enough capacity in the plumbing to handle an emergency situation where one or more pipes becomes blocked. I think the fail safe features of the system, while not even required for normal operation, are one of the things Bean identifies as a distinguishing aspect of it.

If the system is properly adjusted and that requires the siphon to be dialed down, that means the single pipe has more than enough capacity to handle the system's full turnover and in the event two of three pipes is blocked the remaining one should be able to prevent an over flow by itself.

Hmmmm... this is starting to confuse me a bit.
Whether the siphon is fully open, half way closed, or anything in between... as long as all 3 drains are the same size and the system is currently running stable, won't it work as designed? It does make sense to me that if the siphon is throttled back just a little, this would make for darn sure that if one of the other two drains needs to take over, it can. At the moment, the pump I'm using is a monster. It's pushing tons more water than my plumbing can handle. So i'm throttling back after the pump until I can get a more fitting replacement. All drains were running fully open because I was trying to see what the max GPH was that I could pump into the tank. So if the best way is to throttle back a tad on the siphon, I will do that, and use that flow as a guide to picking out the correct sized return pump. Sound right?

And from what I understand, I can't change how much is going down the open channel. Since both the open channel and siphon are downturned elbows at the same height, the amount of water going down the open channel is going to be determined by the point at which the middle drain stops sucking air and becomes a full siphon. Correct?

Thanks for the clarifications. A lot of this is hard to visualize until you've actually set it up and have it working.

 

[dwolson2]

I thought the siphon is a hair lower than the open line

 

[dwolson2]

I talked with my co worker today and he suggested this to prevent a vortex from forming:

Also, he said to drill a small hole to allow the air to escape out of the top of the upside down "U"

 

[Sisterlimonpot]

It doesn't have to be that complicated:

 

[jdcook72]

I talked with my co worker today and he suggested this to prevent a vortex from forming: \picture\

Also, he said to drill a small hole to allow the air to escape out of the top of the upside down "U"

That is a great suggestion, I had almost the exact same idea (but I hadn't considered the hole TDC to let out air, excellent thought) of adding an additional baffle to discourage a vortex and that will be my next step if the extra depth does not solve the problem. I would like to keep fabrication to as few steps/pieces as possible and if I can get it to work without the baffle over the siphon, even better. If the baffle is required, I think the first step would be to try with just a single piece over the hole. If that doesn't work I would try something similar to your picture but with the top piece coming to the edge to reduce the number of parts required, same basic concept though.

 

[dwolson2]

That is a great suggestion, I had almost the exact same idea (but I hadn't considered the hole TDC to let out air, excellent thought) of adding an additional baffle to discourage a vortex and that will be my next step if the extra depth does not solve the problem. I would like to keep fabrication to as few steps/pieces as possible and if I can get it to work without the baffle over the siphon, even better. If the baffle is required, I think the first step would be to try with just a single piece over the hole. If that doesn't work I would try something similar to your picture but with the top piece coming to the edge to reduce the number of parts required, same basic concept though.

I was just thinking how are you going to get the bulkheads out once its glued into place? You may never need to, but would you have to remove it?

.

I think this is the best one yet. simple and no chance of an air bubble forming.

I think this one might have an air buble trapped in it.

 

[jdcook72]

I was just thinking how are you going to get the bulkheads out once its glued into place? You may never need to, but would you have to remove it?

The front panel has a rabbit around the side and bottom edges and it slides into a dado around the sides and bottom of the box. The joint is water tight with silicone lubricant (like thick petroleum jelly, not the calking) and the front can be slid up and off if necessary.

I think this is the best one yet. simple and no chance of an air bubble forming.

This will be the next prototype

I think this one might have an air buble trapped in it.

Shouldn't, there is a gap between the top baffle and the side of the box to let out air like in the first option. Top baffle is slightly angled so air will rise up to and out of the gap.

 

[croix67]

iam trying to make Stockman Standpipe for my cleartide overflow box but not on whats parts i need can any one help please

 

[BeanAnimal]

croix,

Welcome to Reef Central

This thread is dedicated to a very specific type of standpipe system. You will get much more help if you start a new thread in the DIY forum. You can also search google for "stockman standpipe". You will find dozens of links, and a direct link to Ken Stockmans page dedicated to the construction of the Stockman Standpipe.

 

[jhonerkamp]

New to Reef Central and to saltwater in general. Trying to get plans together for my first saltwater tank. Going to go FOWLR in a 75g tank. I'm planning on a coast to coast overflow with a Bean silent and failsafe system using 1" pvc. The only thing that I have bought is a 20g long tank that i'm planning on setting up as my sump. Planning on getting an eheim 1062 since i keep reading that mag pumps are noisy. So I was wondering what would be the best way to set up my sump? Should I get a Skimmer? Should I make room for a refugarium? Where should I run my drain lines coming into the sump?

 

[arrecifefan]

b2mini.
you have relatively long, small diameter and not too step tube with the end below water, it is needed pressure to push the air out, the 1 or 2 inches above the inlet its not enough so you need "vent" the tube, drill small hole just above the water level in the sump, the air will be purged, if this take to much time try biger hole, once the siphon is in only few drops will out from the small hole if one hole is not enough drill second hole where the tube starts down atach small flexibe tube and route to the sump above the water level.

 

[ataller]

Again, thank you for your help so far. I have run into a small snag.

When my pump is turned off and back on again, the siphon does not seem to start. The other drains just handle all the flow, and nothing goes through the siphon.

Normally the siphon drain is under about 1" of water. I have read that this is often the cause of a siphon not starting.

My overflow box is bottom drilled not back drilled.

I have been using (2) street 90s to make a U bend for the siphon, is this a problem? When I remove the U, the siphon will start again, then I can place it back on the bulkhead.

Ideas?

 

[arrecifefan]

the vented tube not trap air, the elbow in the emergency is turned up as the water level rises the water spill an travel down through the tube walls leaving air escape the siphon tube have the elbow turn down so the air is traped, "vent" the tube and the water will flow (reed post 4915)

 

[uncleof6]

Again, thank you for your help so far. I have run into a small snag.

When my pump is turned off and back on again, the siphon does not seem to start. The other drains just handle all the flow, and nothing goes through the siphon.

Normally the siphon drain is under about 1" of water. I have read that this is often the cause of a siphon not starting.

My overflow box is bottom drilled not back drilled.

I have been using (2) street 90s to make a U bend for the siphon, is this a problem? When I remove the U, the siphon will start again, then I can place it back on the bulkhead.

Ideas?

It should not present a problem, the use of sanitary tees, was to facilitate maintenance.

There are a few things that cause start up issues. Look over your plumbing carefully. Air leaks, in the siphon line can cause start up issues. The drain outlets being too deep in the sump can cause start up issues--not more than 1", less may be better. The air tube for the open channel being too low causing the open channel to head to siphon, before the main siphon can purge the air. Horizontal pipe runs can and do cause start up issues, air can be trapped in the lines.

Sounds to me like you are not getting the air purged out of the out of the siphon line. Double check your outlet depths, if you have horizontal runs, angle them down, rather than horizontal. Follow the adjustment procedure to the letter.

 

[shizno]

I just got a 75g tank that I want to drill for this overflow. Gl*******s drill bits claim 1 3/4" will work for "their" 1 inch bulkheads but will that work with any 1" bulkhead from like Lowes? Sump will be 30g with eheim 1260 with 3.5ft head loss so probably only 300gph, would 1" fittings be too big for that?

 

[BigKahuna]

I was just thinking how are you going to get the bulkheads out once its glued into place? You may never need to, but would you have to remove it?

You could just go with uniseals. They pop right in and are pretty low profile. One thing that concerns me is having the opening directly opposite a flat sheet of acrylic will seriously decrease the flow though right? I could be wrong but I though unless a pipe has a decent amount of clearance in front of it it will slow the flow kinda like an elbow.