Silent and Failsafe Overflow System

[dwolson2]

Uncle of 6, you posted this on converting dual corner overflows into the bean animal

well, yes and no. There are a couple options, though putting a herbie in one overflow, and blocking off the other would be a little simpler.

The overflows can be bridged, with a narrow weir, put the siphon in one overflow box, the open channel in the other, the emergency in one, and the return in the other.

Another option, is to put the siphon and open channel in one overflow box, and the return and dry emergency in the other. Water would need to be kept out of the second overflow, as there would be no water movement inside, and it would stagnate.

The grand plan would be to remove the corner overflows, plug the holes, and install a coast to coast. Drill and plumb out the back of the tank.

Jim

Just to verify that I have this correctly, as long as the bottom of the weir is lower than the open channel, I would have connected the two boxes together and they should work like one long overflow box.

Also, could the original standpipes be used and kept as two open channels and just convert one of the returns into the siphon. Although there would be no "emergency" the two open shouldn't have any problems handling the flow(since that's how it was designed)

Lastly, I have the "slits" that are in the current weirs on the tank, should i put the C2C slightly lower than the bottom of the slits so more water goes down the smooth back instead of the slits?

 

[uncleof6]

Uncle of 6, you posted this on converting dual corner overflows into the bean animal

Originally Posted by uncleof6
well, yes and no. There are a couple options, though putting a herbie in one overflow, and blocking off the other would be a little simpler.

The overflows can be bridged, with a narrow weir, put the siphon in one overflow box, the open channel in the other, the emergency in one, and the return in the other.

Another option, is to put the siphon and open channel in one overflow box, and the return and dry emergency in the other. Water would need to be kept out of the second overflow, as there would be no water movement inside, and it would stagnate.

The grand plan would be to remove the corner overflows, plug the holes, and install a coast to coast. Drill and plumb out the back of the tank.

Jim

Just to verify that I have this correctly, as long as the bottom of the weir is lower than the open channel, I would have connected the two boxes together and they should work like one long overflow box.

Essentially, yes. As long as the valve in the siphon line, controls the water level equally (no drops etc. one body of water) it should work properly. I do not see this as the ideal solution, but it is workable.

Also, could the original standpipes be used and kept as two open channels and just convert one of the returns into the siphon. Although there would be no "emergency" the two open shouldn't have any problems handling the flow(since that's how it was designed)

However, all three standpipes must be used, or you short circuit the fail safe. There should not be an issue handling the flow rate, but that is not the purpose of the dry emergency.

It is important to point out, that any drain line with water flowing in it, is at risk of being plugged. It is a plain safety consideration that a dry emergency MUST be used when running a siphon line, to not use one, is just asking for a flood. Bean has explained this many many times.

In terms of the tank "being designed to handle the flow," if it were, there would be no need to modify the drain system. Truth is, IMO, reef ready tanks are not designed to handle flow, they are designed to take your money. They provide an outdated simple answer to a complex question--the results are not satisfactory--in many cases.

Lastly, I have the "slits" that are in the current weirs on the tank, should i put the C2C slightly lower than the bottom of the slits so more water goes down the smooth back instead of the slits?

I would take the teeth off the overflows as well. Be aware that the water level in the tank, will be ~ the top of the weir, and bottom of the teeth is usually pretty low. You may wish to explore an alternative solution such as blocking the "slits" and bringing the top edge of the "bridge" to a more reasonable level.

 

[Joel_155]

Joel,

For starters, turn off that silly tapatalk signature...

The setup is described numerous times in this thread, but essentially you will need to either connect the overflow boxes with a coast-to-coast wier or you will need to fill one of them with sand (nice small DSB) to prevent the water in it from stagnating. One box would have the open channel (large bullhead) and siphon (small) and the other box would have the emergency (large bulkhead) and return (small).

Spend a bit of time browsing the thread and you will find a lot more detail of the how and why

Hey Bean and All,
So I've been browsing the thread over the past few weeks (I've been skipping around here and there...probably read about 100 + pages...man this thread is huge) and I have a few questions about applying this to my setup.

I've read that trying to use both overflows independently will be almost impossible to balance the siphon lines to get them to work together. What if both siphon lines were joined via a T and then went to a valve to adjust the flow? Couldn't you also place a line joining both overflows using the return ports to make sure the flow between both is balanced? I'm not an expert in flow dynamics but it seems that the idea behind the C2C is to balance the flow between both overflows and by joining them with PVC you may accomplish the same thing.

Also my overflows are predrilled with one 1 inch bulkhead meant for as the drain and two 1/2 in bulkheads meant for the returns. Would this setup work if you used both 1/2 in lines as the siphon and open channel drains and had them joined underneath and then used the 1 inch lines as the emergency drain? It seems like this would give you the three drains required for the setup to work and allow for a larger Emergency drain just incase things don't work. I would then run the return over the back as that seems to be a better option. If this has been discussed already and I missed it sorry to double (triple, quadruple,etc) post. Let me know what people think about this.

Oh and Bean...I turned off the stupid tapatalk deal!

 

[DaveMorris]

I have a similar issue as Joel's...my tank is a 300g with dual corner overflows each measures 6"x18" with two 1.5" drains and two 3/4" returns. I would like to use the BA style drain, but not sure of the best way to do it. My question is similar to above...Is there a way to make it work by joining the two overflows together at the bottom and splitting the three lines between the two overflows? Or is there a good way to make two drain systems work in tandem, one in each overflow? I really do not want to remove the overflows and drill the tank.

 

[Grandmaster_Toad]

I have been looking for an alternative to the durso stand pipe method. Durso requires a drilled reef ready, do I have to drill my tank for this method?

 

[uncleof6]

I have been looking for an alternative to the durso stand pipe method. Durso requires a drilled reef ready, do I have to drill my tank for this method?

Yes.

 

[BeanAnimal]

Dave and Joel,

This has been discussed at length several times over the course of the thread.

While it may be possible to join standpipes, the results are not predictable. It may be easier to join the corner overflows with a DIY internal weir connecting them. Another (easier) alternative is to fill one overflow box with sand, using the large standpipe in it as the emergency and the small as a return. You got a nice little RDSB in the tank and a functional 3 standpipe overflow sytem.

 

[BeanAnimal]

Folks, I am relatively new to the hobby and have always been inspired by the various DIY projects going on on this forum. I have done some basic plumbing for sumps and built a sump, very basic stuff.

I am thinking about building BeAn style overflows for 125g and 40g tanks. I will start with the 40g. Here are my questions.

1. Size. If the flow of the 40g tank is 400gph should I use 1/2", 3/4" or 1" bulkheads? Does it matter? What size would be good for the 125g tank if flow is 1000gph. I am talking about actual flow rate.

2. What is the purpose of the tee and cap of the siphon and standpipe? For ease of cleaning? Can I simply use a street elbow? I think the street elbow will make it easy to purge the air.

3. It looks like the smallest diameter "Sanitary" tee is 1.5". Can I use a regular tee instead?

That's all I have now

1) The smaller standpipes will handle the 400 GPH flow. The problem is that a small "open channel" can cause some noise. So on the 400GPH system, I would go with at least 3/4" bulkheads and plumbing, but utilize a 1" standpipe for the open channel. On the larger system, i would follow the design as laid out (1" or larger bulkheads and 1.25" or 1.5" standpipes)

2) Ease of cleaning. A street elbow will work. Be aware that if the air intake of the open channel is IN the water flow, it will make awful noise.

3) Regular Tee will work. The San-tee improves the flow capacity and reduces noise by reducing splashing in the open channel on some systems. An alternative is to cant (lean) the open channel standpipe slightly to one side so that the water flows from the tee onto the side of the standpipe instead of splashing down the center.

 

[Cbechdel]

P-traps instead of elbows?

P-traps instead of elbows?

Can I just use the U shaped part from a p-trap on the top of my intake instead of a capped t with an elbow turned down? And I can use a clean out p-trap and remove the clean out cap and affix a air tube nozzle fitting for the backup overflow.


I would think it Looks much cleaner, less fittings etc. I can friction fit so they are removable to clean and clear

Appreciate any thoughts.

 

[dwolson2]

I put a weir from one overflow to the other, then notched out the back behind the weir to connect the overflows.

From left to right, siphon, emergency, return, open.

 

[sifnos]

Here is my attempt for the ultra silent Be An overflow.cube 32*32*32 Cost to cost overflow 5''*5'' , 1'' from the trim. Three holes 1.5" .Distance from the center of the holes till the end glass of the aquarium 4.25". Still not sure about the side trim I don't know if they are in need.(?) the system will cycle 5 time the mount of the water; almost 660 gph. Any thought on your mind?

 

[sifnos]

 

[uncleof6]

Here is my attempt for the ultra silent Be An overflow.cube 32*32*32 Cost to cost overflow 5''*5'' , 1'' from the trim. Three holes 1.5" .Distance from the center of the holes till the end glass of the aquarium 4.25". Still not sure about the side trim I don't know if they are in need.(?) the system will cycle 5 time the mount of the water; almost 660 gph. Any thought on your mind?

Unless the glass is 19mm thick, you will need the bracing, and probably more at both the top and inside bottom.... even with 19mm sides, you need a 1" bottom panel, or an internal bottom eurobrace around 12mm thick.

As far as the overflow/drain system, I would drop the top edge of the weir to 1" below the top edge of the glass, at least.

 

[sifnos]

Unless the glass is 19mm thick, you will need the bracing, and probably more at both the top and inside bottom.... even with 19mm sides, you need a 1" bottom panel, or an internal bottom eurobrace around 12mm thick.

As far as the overflow/drain system, I would drop the top edge of the weir to 1" below the top edge of the glass, at least.

it is not the first time that am constructing in that dimension. 12mm with eurobrace(both up and down of curse) is just fine.if i want it to be rimless my choice would be 17mm(aka19mm) with 30mm bottom. Due to the cost to cost overflow the back trim can be ignored MAYBE the side ones too( i am going to test it with ansys)

why you suggest to drop the edge of the weir 1''????

 

[uncleof6]

it is not the first time that am constructing in that dimension. 12mm with eurobrace(both up and down of curse) is just fine.if i want it to be rimless my choice would be 17mm(aka19mm) with 30mm bottom. Due to the cost to cost overflow the back trim can be ignored MAYBE the side ones too( i am going to test it with ansys)

I would advise against that.

why you suggest to drop the edge of the weir 1''????

More wiggle room--it appears in the drawing that the top edge of the weir, is up against the bracing. Too close for comfort.

This is a bit off topic, perhaps a separate thread would be best.

 

[sifnos]

I would advise against that.

More wiggle room--it appears in the drawing that the top edge of the weir, is up against the bracing. Too close for comfort.

This is a bit off topic, perhaps a separate thread would be best.

thank you for your time. i am going to check it again

 

[Brando457]

I have a single overflow w/ 4 bulkheads - 2 for drains and 2 for returns. What would be the best way to plumb it and set them up for a silent overflow?

I believe each bulkhead is 1", but not 100% sure and the overflow is located on the direct left wall centered like a peninsula style tank.

Thanks for the help!

 

[uncleof6]

***

 

[eagle9252]

use only one return. so you can have the 3 drains

 

[Brando457]

Would one return be able to handle 1200 gph though at 3/4" ?