Silent and Failsafe Overflow System

[autodave]

I need a response today ASAP would be appreciated since I have to place an order today.

I have a 55g with around 40g sump. I was thinking in doing a beananimal overflow style. But should I go with a 1" slip x slip bulkhead and finish with a 1.5" pvc? For both my return and overflow. Or should I go with a 3/4" bulkhead and finish with a 1" pvc. I'm trying to avoid having to buy 2 drill bits since I'm trying to work with a budget but also do a decent set up.




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I always steer towards a larger bulkhead,a smaller bulkhead will increase the chance of a clog from a foreign object.

 

[CarlitosReef]

Thanks does help, keep in mind I can always put a control valve on my submerged closed drain. I can have the siphon air vented drain running freely to my fudge. My emergency drain will obviously kick in if both get clogged.

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[dwolson2]

BeanAnimal,

I have a 180 with dual overflows. I know this question has been asked many times before but I have not seen any pictures of anyone trying to connect the overflow boxes. I was wondering if this design would work to allow both overflows to work together. It would be great to seperate the open channel and full siphon in two different boxes in order to avoid stagnant water.

Basically I would like to make a weir that spans across the two boxes and use the 1" cutouts (for return hoses) as the inlets to the overflows. This would likely require plugging the existing teeth.

Is this a viable option or just way off?

Thanks
Phillip

This is what I notched out:

 

[BeanAnimal]

As noted above, it is viable, but increasing the "notch" will help to balance the flow between the two towers and prevent oscillations.

 

[dwolson2]

My notch is 3 inches deep, and here is the plumbing in relation to the weir:

Note, my siphon and emergency are in one overflow and the wet and return in the other. I also plan on adding sand to the bottom of the overflow.

 

[benjc]

Why not have the siphon in one overflow and the secondary drain and emergency drain in the other overflow? If the flow through the secondary drain does not provide the amount of movement you are looking for, you could always setup a smaller siphon drain in each of the overflows, with one overflow also containing the secondary drain and the other overflow containing the emergency drain.

 

[dwolson2]

I put them the way I did because I have 2-1" and 2-3/4. My dry and return are 3/4 and my siphon and wet are 1". I could have flipped the dry/returns, but how my sump is designed it worked out with the wet and return on the right.

I could have set it up the way your referring, but would have needed to run the return up the back, which I didn't want to do. I have the proper flow through all of the plumbing, the siphon is 2/3 closed and very little goes through the wet. If I went with a larger return I would have to set it up as you mentioned, but with head loss I am around 700gph right now.

 

[ohioreef71]

I've read through this thread for months but can not find if the 90 degree elbows have to be glued? I made my internal overflow box as small as possible about 3'' tall and 2.75''deep and used slip fit bulkheads. I even cut my elbows down a bit to fit. I would like to not glue them in for maintenance reasons. But air would probably seep past the elbows and make noise right?

 

[dwolson2]

If it were me, I would put teflon tape on the pipe( yes I know not threaded)
I have used that trick on another thing in my tank to nearly seal it. It may let a small amount of air in, but my fittings without tape don't( in the sump area so I can add a filter sock)

Try it, you should be good... If not, glue it. If it leaks, it will only back into your overflow.

 

[chamjack]

I would like to not glue them in for maintenance reasons. But air would probably seep past the elbows and make noise right?

I never glued mined for the same reason. I have been running this system on my 125 for over a year now. I have never heard it sucking air. It's completely silent. :thumbsup:

 

[budster.stig1]

New B/A System finished

New B/A System finished

Reefsters:

I have followed this thread now for almost 2 yrs., during my R&D and early stages of building my new system. (http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2137506)
I now have completed the plumbing phase and I am currently testing flow, setting pump calibration, and analyzing results. My B/A system works as advertised, however it seems my max. flow is about 1200gph, which is what I need for my DT,(210g), but leaves me no additional head room to increase the flow. The following is how I built the B/A system, see if you can find any thing that might limit the efficiency.:reading:

The (3) holes in the coast to coast OF are (2) 1 1/2", (1) 1". All are plumbed entirely with same size PVC. Air vent is on middle 1 1/2" pipe, left pipe is the emergency, the right pipe is the syphon. Syphon adjustment is located low on the run to the dump sump. All angles are 45 deg., syphon and center drains terminate about 2" below sump water level, emergency dumps into sump for noise alarm. The 1" syphon hole is drilled just slightly lower than the other two 1 1/2" holes to facilitate shyphon start-up, this seems to work well as I have not had any problem starting syphon. There are no bubbles visable at the syphon pipe in the sump, there are a very few visable at the
1 1/2" drain., the system is silent as advertised. I am putting 1200gph into the over-flow for testing and the syphon valve needs to be open completely to handle that rate.

I will include pictures with this post for clarification, come over to Large Systems, Buds Twin in Wall Build to tag along if you wish! (link is provided above) Any feed-back on what I've got so far would be appreciated::love1:........................Budster:bum:

 

[HenkP]

BeanAnimal,

I have a 180 with dual overflows. I know this question has been asked many times before but I have not seen any pictures of anyone trying to connect the overflow boxes. I was wondering if this design would work to allow both overflows to work together. It would be great to seperate the open channel and full siphon in two different boxes in order to avoid stagnant water.

Basically I would like to make a weir that spans across the two boxes and use the 1" cutouts (for return hoses) as the inlets to the overflows. This would likely require plugging the existing teeth.

Is this a viable option or just way off?

Thanks
Phillip

Looking at the drawings I immediately see an opportunity for improved skimming of the surface layer. Did you guys consider to lower the weir to the water level? Many reefers claim that a wider overflow captures more of the surface-layer bound pollution's.

Just a thought.

 

[uncleof6]

Reefsters:

I have followed this thread now for almost 2 yrs., during my R&D and early stages of building my new system. (http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2137506)
I now have completed the plumbing phase and I am currently testing flow, setting pump calibration, and analyzing results. My B/A system works as advertised, however it seems my max. flow is about 1200gph, which is what I need for my DT,(210g), but leaves me no additional head room to increase the flow. The following is how I built the B/A system, see if you can find any thing that might limit the efficiency.:reading:

The (3) holes in the coast to coast OF are (2) 1 1/2", (1) 1". All are plumbed entirely with same size PVC. Air vent is on middle 1 1/2" pipe, left pipe is the emergency, the right pipe is the syphon. Syphon adjustment is located low on the run to the dump sump. All angles are 45 deg., syphon and center drains terminate about 2" below sump water level, emergency dumps into sump for noise alarm. The 1" syphon hole is drilled just slightly lower than the other two 1 1/2" holes to facilitate shyphon start-up, this seems to work well as I have not had any problem starting syphon. There are no bubbles visable at the syphon pipe in the sump, there are a very few visable at the
1 1/2" drain., the system is silent as advertised. I am putting 1200gph into the over-flow for testing and the syphon valve needs to be open completely to handle that rate.

I will include pictures with this post for clarification, come over to Large Systems, Buds Twin in Wall Build to tag along if you wish! (link is provided above) Any feed-back on what I've got so far would be appreciated::love1:........................Budster:bum:

First off: cut the pipes off, so that the outlets are less than 1" below the water level in the sump. (basic setup instructions)

The siphon capacity of a 1" line is right around 2000 gph w/36" drop, which is right where this tank should be running. So, I think you should be running a larger siphon--rather than pushing the limits of your siphon line.

On your return pump performance: You have made some errors in the setup. First you are running the pump output right into a brick wall with the Tee attached to the back of the stand, and you have reduced the pipe diameter to 1" going up into the tank, and over into the sump it looks like. That is why you can't get any flow out of it. Too much friction loss, w/too many fittings and direction changes as well as too small a pipe diameter.

45 off of the pump outlet, over a bit, then 45 up to the tank, better would be to go straight up from the pump, eliminating the 45's in the upward run) and run the return up over the back of the tank. (yes I know you have a hole drilled, unfortunately it is too small for this pump) Tee off the line over to the sump. Keep the pipe size 1.5" entirely. Do not reduce it. For better performance increase the pipe size to 2".

Another problem with your pump plumbing is the 90° elbow right at the pump inlet. Sweep or not, this will cause a differential pressure (difference in velocity of the water entering the pump, between the inside of the curve and the outside of the curve) in the pump volute, that will cause the pump to cavitate. You need a straight run to the pump inlet ~ 7 - 10 times the pipe diameter.

Just an idle comment, I would not have wasted the money on a dart gold pump, rather a standard dart for this tank.

 

[Augster]

Just an idle comment, I would not have wasted the money on a dart gold pump, rather a standard dart for this tank.

Not to go on a tangent and add to this already monster of a thread but since you posed this comment, may I inquire as to your reasons against the "gold" version of the Dart?

I'm looking at the Gold version only for the supposed quieter operation and more efficient power consumption, both at the tops of my design requirements especially the latter as electricity is way too expensive here in Cali to not be a consideration in selecting powered devices.

 

[uncleof6]

Not to go on a tangent and add to this already monster of a thread but since you posed this comment, may I inquire as to your reasons against the "gold" version of the Dart?

I'm looking at the Gold version only for the supposed quieter operation and more efficient power consumption, both at the tops of my design requirements especially the latter as electricity is way too expensive here in Cali to not be a consideration in selecting powered devices.

Quieter, I don't think so. I have a shelf full of standard Darts, with the large four pole motors (low rpm)--for all practical purposes they are silent--when sitting on the self, (LOL) and I cannot hear them when they are running.

I don't see a pump using much more energy than a couple light bulbs. I am in cali also, but with aquariums, I think energy efficiency is an oxy moron--and the only sensible solution is to not run an aquarium--a luxury item. Certainly, it is a consideration however, I choose equipment that will do the job, regardless of ad hype or any other consideration.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with the Dart Gold, if that is what you want to use. It is not needed, however.

 

[dwolson2]

Looking at the drawings I immediately see an opportunity for improved skimming of the surface layer. Did you guys consider to lower the weir to the water level? Many reefers claim that a wider overflow captures more of the surface-layer bound pollution's.

Just a thought.

I already talked to him about that, my tank is set up as you depicted, and i have surface skimming over the entire tank.(C2C)

 

[dwolson2]

I've gotten a lot of questions on how I put the bean animal in my tank, so FWIW, here is a thread I started with the info:
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2212298

 

[Reefer94]

Awesome overflow, that i'll be imlementing on my new tank. Couple quick questions though, and I apologize if it has been addressed somewhere in the 1,000s of replies

My overflow is external, not quite coast to coast, but a good 14" across (14x4x10 I believe). The drains are up from the bottom, not out the back. Tank is 24x24x25.

A) I may only have space for two T's and elbows (I have not confirmed this), facing away from each other on the far sides. These would be the full syphon and the open channel. The center would be the emergency overflow. Can this (emergency overflow) simply be sticking straight up and open with no elbow/T on it? See any disasters in the making?

B) Anyone see an issue with rising from the bottom and not coming in from the rear of the overflow?

Thanks for any input, again sorry if I'm beating a dead horse and this has already been addressed.

 

[dwolson2]

I think a while back a guy came in from the bottom on his external overflow. If you just put a pipe straight out for emergency, i don't see it being a real problem since most people upturn the elbows anyway. However I heard the "T" has something to do with pressure, but I know the "T" allows you to clean the pipe in case of a blockage.

 

[uncleof6]

Awesome overflow, that i'll be imlementing on my new tank. Couple quick questions though, and I apologize if it has been addressed somewhere in the 1,000s of replies

My overflow is external, not quite coast to coast, but a good 14" across (14x4x10 I believe). The drains are up from the bottom, not out the back. Tank is 24x24x25.

A) I may only have space for two T's and elbows (I have not confirmed this), facing away from each other on the far sides. These would be the full syphon and the open channel. The center would be the emergency overflow. Can this (emergency overflow) simply be sticking straight up and open with no elbow/T on it? See any disasters in the making?

Won't really make any difference, the upturned elbow is the same as an open top pipe......

B) Anyone see an issue with rising from the bottom and not coming in from the rear of the overflow?

Thanks for any input, again sorry if I'm beating a dead horse and this has already been addressed.

This would not make any difference at all.