Mrramsey
NEO Reefer
Trim the actual elbow, on the 1" side, down to about 1/4" and glue the pipe in. It's a diy street 90. That's what I did on mine and it worked great.
Silent and Failsafe Overflow System
- Thread starter JohnL
- Start date
Trim the actual elbow, on the 1" side, down to about 1/4" and glue the pipe in. It's a diy street 90. That's what I did on mine and it worked great.
I'd rather not glue it into the bulkhead but what did u use to shave it down? Maybe I could shave it down until it fits snug in the bulkhead.
Mrramsey
NEO Reefer
I cut the fitting with my PVC cutter. Glue only the pipe to the fitting and silicone the other end into the bulkhead.
kegogut
Active member
So Ive done a 1.5" BA Overflow on my 225. I installed an overflow that measures 24"wide x 4 1/2"deep x 7 1/2"tall.
The problem Im getting is the water is making noise when going into the overflow. The water doesnt seem to get deep enough in the overflow to go over the the pipes and stop the " waterfall" sound Im hearing. Theres about 4-5" between the top of the overflow and the bottom where the water goes into the pipes.
Im using a Jebao DC 12000 return pump,its on its lowest setting. If I turn it up the overflow noise gets louder because the water never gets any deeper inside the overflow.
Any help to get this thing quiet would be of great help. Thanks!
The problem Im getting is the water is making noise when going into the overflow. The water doesnt seem to get deep enough in the overflow to go over the the pipes and stop the " waterfall" sound Im hearing. Theres about 4-5" between the top of the overflow and the bottom where the water goes into the pipes.
Im using a Jebao DC 12000 return pump,its on its lowest setting. If I turn it up the overflow noise gets louder because the water never gets any deeper inside the overflow.
Any help to get this thing quiet would be of great help. Thanks!
uncleof6
Active member
What size bulkheads?
Sounds to me like the elbows are too deep in the overflow. There should only be ~ an inch or so from the top of the weir, to the top of the down-turned elbows. Raise the elbows if needed, and set the water level higher, using the valve on the siphon.
Also that overflow is pretty short relatively speaking. Full length would be a lot quieter.
kegogut
Active member
The bulkheads are 1.5" as well as the drain pipes. Moving the pipes or the overflow really isnt an option anymore. I could possibly remove the down turned elbows and cut some of them off but maybe only an inch or so. or whatever the length of the female is where the pipe would normally fit into the elbow.
I tried raising the water lvl by way of valve on the siphon but the open channel just picks up the slack and the water lvl inside the overflow stays the same. I dont have a valve on the open channel so I cant close that all the way off either. I could put a valve on the open siphon if needed though.
I tried raising the water lvl by way of valve on the siphon but the open channel just picks up the slack and the water lvl inside the overflow stays the same. I dont have a valve on the open channel so I cant close that all the way off either. I could put a valve on the open siphon if needed though.
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uncleof6
Active member
Jump your flow rate up to 2000gph, and see how the drain system behaves (that is where this tank should be running.) If you are running low flow through the tank, you are going to have issues with 1.5" bulkheads. 1.5" bulkheads are for systems that are flowing 1500 gph +. (assuming a 'normal' length of drop/head height.)
On the bulkheads/elbows:
I was afraid of that. As it stands, there is nothing you can do about the drop into the overflow, other than raising the water level in the overflow, till it is around the tops of the down turned elbows. This is the normal operating level. If that is too far down in the overflow, you are going to have to live with it, and consider it a lesson learned for the next time around. Cutting the elbows or other such mods are not going to accomplish anything. The only thing that will help quiet it down, would be to lengthen the overflow to the full length of the tank. It is very doable, and only not doable if you populated an aquarium system that was not working right. Making a system operate is not an option, it is a mandate, so regardless of what stage in development you are in, it is always an option. well that is sort of a contradiction. You are saying it is not an option, and I am saying it is a mandate: not optional.
Open siphon? What is that?
When the valve on the siphon is progressively closed, or the flow rate increases, the water level should rise in the overflow. If it does not, there is a problem with the implementation. This is how the system is initially adjusted, and how the system is adjusted down the road. Raising the head height is the only way the open channel flow should increase...if the water never gets up to the dry emergency on startup, you have an implementation problem.
At this point I am concluding there is an implementation issue with your BA installation, that is the reason it is not working right. It could also be way out of proper adjustment, but I suspect the former over the latter.
kegogut
Active member
The only problem I can see with implementation is the overflow being too deep. I did bump up the flow which made the water lvl raise a tad but theres still a bit of a fall for the water to go. Im also thinking that once the overflow "breaks in" it will get a bit more quiet.
Im going to play with the flow and valve a bit more today and see if I can make some positive adjustments.
Im going to play with the flow and valve a bit more today and see if I can make some positive adjustments.
By any chance does anyone have a 40 Breeder that they modified with the bean animal design? If so, any chance you have a build thread or a couple images I could see? Especially around the overflow or weir box?
I read through the thread and also read Bean's original one. I'm getting ready to set up one of two 40's and just wanting to get some clarification or examples. My last reef tank plumbing was using a Durso on a 100 gallon. That tank was pre-drilled. This time around I have to add a bit more plumbing, drill, and make the weir box so I'm not sure I'm visualizing the box and overflow plumbing correctly.
Also wasn't sure if I needed to go with the recommended 1.5" plumbing on the 40 or if there is a list for 1" on a smaller tank like the 40 breeder.
I read through the thread and also read Bean's original one. I'm getting ready to set up one of two 40's and just wanting to get some clarification or examples. My last reef tank plumbing was using a Durso on a 100 gallon. That tank was pre-drilled. This time around I have to add a bit more plumbing, drill, and make the weir box so I'm not sure I'm visualizing the box and overflow plumbing correctly.
Also wasn't sure if I needed to go with the recommended 1.5" plumbing on the 40 or if there is a list for 1" on a smaller tank like the 40 breeder.
uncleof6
Active member
Wave boxes are not good as they produce unpredictable function of a drain system. They accomplish nothing of value for a closed system marine aquarium. Basically, a waste of time and money. They also put undue stress on the seams of a tank, which is not a good thing.
How much bulkhead you need is a function of the flow rate and head height. (length of the drop.)
Your guess, on bulkhead size, is pretty much correct, but it depends on the actual length of the drop. @ 24" drop a 2 inch bulkhead will flow 6667gph (not accounting for ambient pressure and friction loss.) 1 .5" bulkhead will flow 3750 gph (not accounting for ambient pressure/friction loss.) At 36" drop, a 1.5" will flow ~4600gph, so would probably handle 4000gph after friction losses. At the right drop height, a 1" bulkhead will flow 4000gph, but it will cause problems for 1" pipe (ceiling is ~3500gph for 1" pipe,) with extreme friction loss and noise, with 960gph being being the practical limit. For 1.5" pipe the practical limit is ~2100gph, and for 2" it is 3300gph. Exceeding these practical limits just increases the friction loss. Exceeding the peak flow (ceiling) @ ~ 18ft/sec causes problems.
How much bulkhead you need is a function of the flow rate and head height. (length of the drop.)
Your guess, on bulkhead size, is pretty much correct, but it depends on the actual length of the drop. @ 24" drop a 2 inch bulkhead will flow 6667gph (not accounting for ambient pressure and friction loss.) 1 .5" bulkhead will flow 3750 gph (not accounting for ambient pressure/friction loss.) At 36" drop, a 1.5" will flow ~4600gph, so would probably handle 4000gph after friction losses. At the right drop height, a 1" bulkhead will flow 4000gph, but it will cause problems for 1" pipe (ceiling is ~3500gph for 1" pipe,) with extreme friction loss and noise, with 960gph being being the practical limit. For 1.5" pipe the practical limit is ~2100gph, and for 2" it is 3300gph. Exceeding these practical limits just increases the friction loss. Exceeding the peak flow (ceiling) @ ~ 18ft/sec causes problems.
Thank you for your assistance. Yes for now I had calculated using 24" dropoff. Will draw up a more detailed plan as time to come.
If wave box is undesired, what other option is there to eliminate dead spot? I was thinking of using 4x 6105 with sea sweep at each of the corner of a tank that is 67"x31"x24" alongside with a maximum flow of 4000gph.
uncleof6
Active member
Power heads are the answer to dead spots. That is what they are for.
It is very difficult to achieve good vertical mixing with anything other than power heads. Even closed loops have their loop holes. Keeping rock work ~ 4" away from the glass is a good way to aid in eliminating dead spots.I really am ready now
Can anyone offer some advice please? How do I calculate the height and depth of the overflow and the placement of the bulkheads?
cheers!
David
uncleof6
Active member
I really am ready now
Can anyone offer some advice please? How do I calculate the height and depth of the overflow and the placement of the bulkheads?
cheers!
David
The holes need to be 1.5x the hole diameter down from the top edge of the glass. IF the trim is 2" (rather than 1.5") you need to figure out where the top edge of the glass is...
The bulkhead flange has to clear the trim, so that is going to put it slightly lower than 1.5x to hole center in some cases. Top of the overflow, 'should' be even with the bottom of the trim on the outside, which usually places the top edge 1" down from the top edge of the glass. Top of the elbows should be around 1" down from the top edge of the overflow, but this can vary... but it does affect the height of the waterfall into the overflow. How this works out, will also affect where the holes need to be...
To set the bottom of the overflow, you need to mock it all up, and use a tape measure. You want the bottom of the overflow ~ 3/4" below the bottom of the down turned elbow.
Basically what I am saying is pull out a tape measure and go to work...
I don't have your tank, and if my fittings are not the same as yours, all my calcs will be wrong...don't force any dimensions to be what you want them to be, and don't guess. Set the top of the weir, and work down...It all works on head pressure, so if you try to make it all fit in the top 3" of the tank, it ain't gunna work... Don't drill hole one, until this is firmly worked out, or you will end up going oooopppppsss... Thanks, uncleof6...
The trim is actually 1 7/8", and as far as I can tell the glass goes all the way to the top of it?
My plan is therefore to drill such that the bulkhead flange will be just below the trim - so center of hole will be approx 1 1/4" below the trim, and therefore almost 3 1/4" below the top of the glass.
Any issues with that plan?
cheers
David
The trim is actually 1 7/8", and as far as I can tell the glass goes all the way to the top of it?
My plan is therefore to drill such that the bulkhead flange will be just below the trim - so center of hole will be approx 1 1/4" below the trim, and therefore almost 3 1/4" below the top of the glass.
Any issues with that plan?
cheers
David
uncleof6
Active member
There is usually a 'lip' on the inside of the trim. This 'lip' sits on the top edge of the glass. What is the hole diameter, I don't want to have to figure it out...
Well, the trim seems to wrap over the glass - there's a little ledge on the trim on the inside of the tank, then it wraps over the glass and down the other side, like this:
<pre>
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</pre>
These are 1" bulkheads. External diameter 2 1/2", hole size 45mm.
cheers
David
<pre>
______
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__| |
|
|
|
</pre>
These are 1" bulkheads. External diameter 2 1/2", hole size 45mm.
cheers
David
BeanAnimal
Premium Member
Yup... we are not calculating the approach to the docking bay of the space station... measure from the lip or the bottom of the trim if in doubt. 1/2" too tall is not going to make a big difference, but 1/2" too short could put undue stress on the glass.
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