Silent and Failsafe Overflow System

[uncleof6]

I have been using the system for 2 years now without an issue at all and really like it. My sump is in my basement. I just got a new tank and my overflow box is on the back wall of the tank. My previous tank had the overflow on the right hand side. On the old setup I didn't have any elbows besides one on each line all the way before the bottom by the sump. I was wondering if elbows will have any effect on how the system works because I don't want to have to drill 3 more holes in my floor then subfloor and then basement ceiling to get to my sump. I would really rather use the existing holes but that would mean I would have a few elbows to get to them.


Thanks,

Adam

Horizontal runs can and do affect the performance of the drain system. It is recommended to not use them. The results can vary however, so it is either a chance you take, or a chance you don't take. I don't like taking chances, and go with what I know won't be a problem.

 

[Adamc1303]

So a few 45's ok?

 

[uncleof6]

So a few 45's ok?

Yep. You want to keep it headed down.

 

[tommmys]

What do you guys think will this work for bean animal Dsa225

 

[dvdcox]

I may not be in the right thread if not I apologize, if so could you guide me to the right thread. I have a 210 with 2 overflows that have 1" drains and 3/4" returns all drilled from the bottom of the tank. both overflows have adjustable OEM Durso's installed Would the Bean Animal system work with 2 separate over flows or would that be dangerous to try. if so what system should I use. I like the concept of having the emergency overflow but don't know how I would accomplish this with the separate overflows. Could I install the full siphon and and open channel in one overflow and and the emergency overflow and return in the other. Would having only 1 3/4" return be sufficient does not seem practical any help would be appreciated

 

[uncleof6]

I may not be in the right thread if not I apologize, if so could you guide me to the right thread. I have a 210 with 2 overflows that have 1" drains and 3/4" returns all drilled from the bottom of the tank. both overflows have adjustable OEM Durso's installed Would the Bean Animal system work with 2 separate over flows or would that be dangerous to try. if so what system should I use. I like the concept of having the emergency overflow but don't know how I would accomplish this with the separate overflows. Could I install the full siphon and and open channel in one overflow and and the emergency overflow and return in the other. Would having only 1 3/4" return be sufficient does not seem practical any help would be appreciated

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showpost.php?p=22481381&postcount=6644

A 3/4" return line is not going to be practical for this tank, anymore than the 1" and 3/4" bulkheads are really suitable for a tank this size.

Corner overflows are very inefficient in terms of surface skimming, and shutting one down, makes it all that much worse.

 

[cakemanPA]

Drain Questions

Drain Questions

I am in the process of a new build. I got everything plumbed up and started testing. I have a couple of issues. I am not sure that I have this set up properly. I have an internal and external overflow box built into my set up. The internal box has 3 - 1.5" bulkheads to connect to the outside box. I used 3 1.5" sch80 bulkheads to drain to the sump. 1 channel i have a ball valve on it, 1 channel that I currently have no valve on it, and an open channel for emergency usage. I have 2 1" return lines hooked up to a 1500 gph pump.

When the siphon established itself, the overflow box drained down so fast that I started pulling air. I am not sure if I have everything set up right. 1.5" sanitary tee with a 1" reducer to a 1" elbow.

 

[uncleof6]

I am in the process of a new build. I got everything plumbed up and started testing. I have a couple of issues. I am not sure that I have this set up properly. I have an internal and external overflow box built into my set up. The internal box has 3 - 1.5" bulkheads to connect to the outside box. I used 3 1.5" sch80 bulkheads to drain to the sump. 1 channel i have a ball valve on it, 1 channel that I currently have no valve on it, and an open channel for emergency usage. I have 2 1" return lines hooked up to a 1500 gph pump.

When the siphon established itself, the overflow box drained down so fast that I started pulling air. I am not sure if I have everything set up right. 1.5" sanitary tee with a 1" reducer to a 1" elbow.

That is what it is supposed to do...until you start closing the valve on the siphon line, to raise and maintain the water level in the overflow at the point water just flows in the open channel (the one with the air vent line)

However, your air vent line is attached far too low for proper operation. It needs to be attached at a point higher than the inlet to the DRY emergency.

In my opinion, you don't have enough room in the external box for this drain system: it is way too small. The through holes, which will be fully submerged when running, will eliminate surface skimming from internal to external box, (water level should be around the centerline of the holes,) look to be too close together for safety. It is hard to tell with overhead shots...

Also, 2 - 1" return lines is not enough for the pump you have. What is the outlet diameter of the pump?

This is the "pattern" I did several years ago, for 1.5" bulkheads (sch80 bulkheads are a waste on our systems) when the internal/external desgin came into existance in relation to Bean's drain system. Though there are many redundant question on the subject, I do wish folks would ask questions, before they start punching holes in their tanks.

 

[cakemanPA]

That is what it is supposed to do...until you start closing the valve on the siphon line, to raise and maintain the water level in the overflow at the point water just flows in the open channel (the one with the air vent line)

However, your air vent line is attached far too low for proper operation. It needs to be attached at a point higher than the inlet to the DRY emergency.

In my opinion, you don't have enough room in the external box for this drain system: it is way too small. The through holes, which will be fully submerged when running, will eliminate surface skimming from internal to external box, (water level should be around the centerline of the holes,) look to be too close together for safety. It is hard to tell with overhead shots...

Also, 2 - 1" return lines is not enough for the pump you have. What is the outlet diameter of the pump?

This is the "pattern" I did several years ago, for 1.5" bulkheads (sch80 bulkheads are a waste on our systems) when the internal/external desgin came into existance in relation to Bean's drain system. Though there are many redundant question on the subject, I do wish folks would ask questions, before they start punching holes in their tanks.

In my case the holes were already punched in tank. My return lines are 2 1" reduced to 3/4" for loc-line.

 

[hbash]

In my case the holes were already punched in tank. My return lines are 2 1" reduced to 3/4" for loc-line.

It's a shame that loc-line only goes up to 3/4". I found at premium aquatics an alternative that may work better than rolling my own:

http://premiumaquatics.com/products/ista-water-flow-accelerators-1-inch-thread.html

 

[uncleof6]

In my case the holes were already punched in tank. My return lines are 2 1" reduced to 3/4" for loc-line.

For a 1500gph pump which most likely has a 1" outlet? You should be running no less that 1.25" pipe (with no splits/tees/loc-line toys .) 1.5" would be better. This involves friction loss/actual pump performance.

I would be considering a major overhaul of the overflow system that is in place. I know it would be a pita, but nonetheless. The internal is really very small as well. Might be great for aesthetics, but it isn't for function.

I am not really trying to blast this out of hand. Just what I see.

EDIT: I just thought of this too.

You could bush/adapt the 1.5" bulkheads to run 1" pipe. With a pump only capable of 1500gph @ 0', you can use 1" pipe in the external to allow more room. Sanitary tees are not required for the operation of this system.

 

[cakemanPA]

I will take a look at reducing the the bulkheads to 1" with some adapters. What is best way to set this up with 1" plumbing in the external over flow

 

[dvdcox]

I am in the process of moving the entire set up to another room in my house with the sump in the basement.
What do I do with the existing overflows? my plan was to run 1 1/4" to the bulkheads and reduce them at that point. The tank is already pre drilled from the bottom. I could cap those off I suppose and drill the back and install the drains that way.
In that case i would remove the overflows from the tank if possible. I will investigate that possibility. I know we learn from our mistakes in this hobby but this is something I want to get right the first time.

 

[sleepydoc]

I am in the process of moving the entire set up to another room in my house with the sump in the basement.
What do I do with the existing overflows? my plan was to run 1 1/4" to the bulkheads and reduce them at that point. The tank is already pre drilled from the bottom. I could cap those off I suppose and drill the back and install the drains that way.
In that case i would remove the overflows from the tank if possible. I will investigate that possibility. I know we learn from our mistakes in this hobby but this is something I want to get right the first time.

See this thread: http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2455062

 

[cakemanPA]

I see part of my problem is that the teeth on the inside box are restricting the flow too much. I am going to open them by drilling out more holes and going a bit deeper. When I do not run the cover, I can get a nice quiet consistent flow going. I still am going to need a bigger sump I think, but that is a whole different issue.

 

[uncleof6]

I see part of my problem is that the teeth on the inside box are restricting the flow too much. I am going to open them by drilling out more holes and going a bit deeper. When I do not run the cover, I can get a nice quiet consistent flow going. I still am going to need a bigger sump I think, but that is a whole different issue.

Drilling them out with more holes, will only partly help, and going deeper will hurt. Eliminating the teeth altogether is what you want to do. You want as thin a layer as possible going into the overflow, for the most efficient surface skimming.

 

[MisterP]

I've researched this for some time now and want to ask what special considerations I should be aware of for a basement sump with like a 12 ft run from the drain to sump?

I figure I should put the valve downstairs just before water enters the sump. This way I can slow the flow slightly just before it enters the sump rather than valving it upstairs.

Also, this will be on 92 gallon tank with a Blue line HD70 return pump with 1" PVC.

 

[uncleof6]

I've researched this for some time now and want to ask what special considerations I should be aware of for a basement sump with like a 12 ft run from the drain to sump?

I figure I should put the valve downstairs just before water enters the sump. This way I can slow the flow slightly just before it enters the sump rather than valving it upstairs.

Also, this will be on 92 gallon tank with a Blue line HD70 return pump with 1" PVC.

You need to have the valve down just above the sump. This will avoid the "cavitation" due to the sudden pressure drop past the valve. This is only necessary for long drops such as too basements. It is a bear to adjust the system with the valve in the basement, a helper—and walkie talkies, would come in handy.

Running 1" pipe up from the basement will choke the pump, and drive it fairly close to shut off head. You need to run > 1.25". You will also have to increase the pump inlet plumbing, from the sump to pump, to > 1.25" as well to prevent cavitation. Adapt up/down at the pump.

This is a basic concept for Centrifugal Pumps 101. I have written extensively about it throughout this forum, so hopefully, I don't have to write about it again.

 

[MisterP]

So, even though the pump has a 1" inlet/outlet I need to bump it up with an adaptor to 1.5" then back to 1" for the bulkhead, then back to 1.5" coming out of the bulkhead?

That doesn't make sense why I would change piping several times or would it just be done at the inlet/outlet of the pump and then back to 1" @ the bulkhead going back in the tank?

Also, the pump is rated for like 30+ ft of head.


So, yes the gate valve on the siphon drain needs to be in the basement just prior to the sump?

I get something like a capacity of 4000gph with the 1" drain so I will definitely just be using 1" drain lines. Then back to the tank with 1.5", correct?

 

[MisterP]

I'm not worried about installing it physically I'm just trying to iron out the technical details.

I'm a sparky so forgive me but I vaguely remember cavitation from fluids class and I'm sort of confused why a pump would be designed with a 1" inlet/outlet if I need to run a 1.5" pipe inlet/outlet.