Silent and Failsafe Overflow System

[uncleof6]

Yep. I closed the gate valve, and water rose quic through the emergency, then covered the air hose...now that still had a ton of bubbles, but I guess that's normal.

The only piece that isn't cemented in is that very bottom pipe. the top half of the 45 is cemented...I used a TON of thread sealant on the cap and the adaptor, I can't imagine that's where the air is coming from. I also made it a point to use enough cement that when I put it together, it squirted out at the seam.

having said all that, the system works. it's not as quiet (yet) as I want, but it doesn't flood, and not helping matters is that my garage floor isn't level, so neither is the water level.

Should not need a ton of sealant on the threads. Follow the instructions! More is not always better, part of the problem with the misuse of tape...

Generally, there should be no noise from this system at all. Silent is silent. I know you get that idea. If there is noise, one of two things: the flow is too high through the open channel or there is an air leak in the siphon... only needs to be a pin hole in a solvent weld join, very difficult to track down.

If the open channel trips to siphon, since the flow capacity is higher than that of the siphon (is not restricted) it will drain the overflow box down, suck in air, and cycle... noise is to be expected. Normal operation the system should be dead silent...

 

[pdiehm]

Well, I did extreme. Went all open and instantly drained the box. kept tweaking. I have very tiny bubbles out of the main siphon. There is a hair sticking out of a joint in the main drain. That couldn't be a cause could it?

Could the fact I don't have the last part heading into the sump be the air problem?

 

[pdiehm]

Right now, i can tell when it is going into full siphon. Starts gurgling and then a slew of bubbles comes out and then....the box empties. Have to keep dialing it back to get it right. For the 5 seconds or so, it is completely silent, not a sound.

 

[uncleof6]

Only takes a pin hole leak to muck up the works....

 

[pdiehm]

siphon doesn't take control of the open channel for a bit. It does get there, it is dead silent, but takes a good 15 minutes to purge all the air and become the driving force.

So it sounds like I got a leak somewhere huh?

 

[uncleof6]

siphon doesn't take control of the open channel for a bit. It does get there, it is dead silent, but takes a good 15 minutes to purge all the air and become the driving force.

So it sounds like I got a leak somewhere huh?

Sounds to me like the pipes are too deep in the sump, or the air vent line is too low in the overflow, or worse, a horizontal run in the drain line. Should only take a ~minute to purge the air from the siphon, in most circumstances. 15 minutes says there is an oppsss in there somewhere, an air leak (small one) would not be quite so problematic.

 

[pdiehm]

Pipes are about 1" in the sump...approximately.

My air tube is 1/2" above the emergency lip...and there are no horizontal runs.

Will keep tweaking it.

 

[pdiehm]

Well, I found a hole! About 1/4" opening at ththe gate valve seal. I removed my support clamp and saw water there.

I can silicone it or try to tear it apart...which I don't want to do. I can silicone it right? Or...I don't think I can do it but use the pvc cement there to fill the gap.

 

[uncleof6]

Well, I found a hole! About 1/4" opening at ththe gate valve seal. I removed my support clamp and saw water there.

I can silicone it or try to tear it apart...which I don't want to do. I can silicone it right? Or...I don't think I can do it but use the pvc cement there to fill the gap.

Which seal? Good gate valves dissasemble for service in place....

 

[pdiehm]

It's where the PVC pipe joins the gate valve...I have a feeling that's not the only leak though.

I'm frustrated, and if I knew my wife wouldn't give me all kinds of grief, I'd get a reef ready tank.

I just can't figure this drain system out, and as luck would have it, there's no one local to help.

I don't have any horizontal runs, I have my drains about 1" in the water. It takes about an hour for the air to purge from the main siphon, and when it does, it's freakin quiet. that in itself makes me wonder if it's a leak or a tuning issue.

Just nearing my wits end after spending most of the day trying to tune this thing in.

btw the Gate Valve is a Spears.

 

[uncleof6]

It's where the PVC pipe joins the gate valve...I have a feeling that's not the only leak though.

I'm frustrated, and if I knew my wife wouldn't give me all kinds of grief, I'd get a reef ready tank.

I just can't figure this drain system out, and as luck would have it, there's no one local to help.

I don't have any horizontal runs, I have my drains about 1" in the water. It takes about an hour for the air to purge from the main siphon, and when it does, it's freakin quiet. that in itself makes me wonder if it's a leak or a tuning issue.

Just nearing my wits end after spending most of the day trying to tune this thing in.

btw the Gate Valve is a Spears.

RR tanks are even more grief, when you try to do them right, which is opposite of the way they are built.

If you have a leak in the siphon, at the gate valve or anywhere else, that is the place to start. Though it is going to be a pain, you are going to have to rebuild the siphon from the ground up, or at the very least, , reinstall the gate valve, which is a craps shoot, if there are other leaks. Once the siphon is solid, we can look at the rest. As I and Bean have stated on many occasions, this system works as long as you stay within the set parameters. It should not take an hour or even 15 minutes to purge the air out of the siphon, adjusted wrong or right, unless something is way wrong. The siphon has to purge the air, before the system can be adjusted in the first place. The list of issues that can occur is very short, there are no mystery problems. Don't lose heart.

The spears gate valve will disassemble, but if the leak is at the join, that is not going to help much. Sillycone + pvc is useless.

 

[uncleof6]

***

 

[hbash]

Didn't get any feedback on this post, so I am adding a link back to it in the hope that I can get some advise. Thanks.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showpost.php?p=23320234&postcount=7599

 

[pdiehm]

I think the thing I am most worried about is how to get the piece of pvc out of the bulkhead. I can hacksaw through but would like to figure out a way to do it without taking off the overflow box and re installing a bulkhead.

Would mean my wife and I moving the tank again.

 

[pdiehm]

Or is it possible (or: advisable) to cut the bulkhead at the threads and rebuild from there? I would only need to cut....maybe an inch or so off the bulkhead.

 

[mmn]

Or is it possible (or: advisable) to cut the bulkhead at the threads and rebuild from there? I would only need to cut....maybe an inch or so off the bulkhead.

Jumping in here though I'm just building mine now. I'm trying to allow enough room in the overflow box to be able to remove the bulkheads if needed - with the elbows glued in. If you do remove the o/f box then it'd be good to re-do that. Also, I believe as Uncle said, that you need to re-do the siphon from the start. Otherwise you are possibly chasing a never ending problem until you do.

If cutting the bulkhead at the threads will allow you to remove the bulkhead without removing the o/f box, then that's a possibility. You would have to glue a new elbow and bulkhead inside the o/f box though.

Regards
Michael

 

[Mrramsey]

Jumping in here though I'm just building mine now. I'm trying to allow enough room in the overflow box to be able to remove the bulkheads if needed - with the elbows glued in. If you do remove the o/f box then it'd be good to re-do that. Also, I believe as Uncle said, that you need to re-do the siphon from the start. Otherwise you are possibly chasing a never ending problem until you do.



If cutting the bulkhead at the threads will allow you to remove the bulkhead without removing the o/f box, then that's a possibility. You would have to glue a new elbow and bulkhead inside the o/f box though.



Regards

Michael

Here's a tip... Don't glue the elbows to the bulkhead inside if the overflow. Just use a little smear of silicone to create a seal. The elbows will be held in place just fine and you can remove them when / if needed with minimal effort. I also used slip to thread bulkheads for easy disassembly if needed.

 

[mmn]

Here's a tip... Don't glue the elbows to the bulkhead inside if the overflow. Just use a little smear of silicone to create a seal. The elbows will be held in place just fine and you can remove them when / if needed with minimal effort. I also used slip to thread bulkheads for easy disassembly if needed.

... Sillycone + pvc is useless.

Now I'm confused!

 

[Mrramsey]

Now I'm confused!

I use it only to create a temporary seal as in sucking air at the down turned elbows inside of the overflow. Pvc fittings vary slightly in size between manufactures. Sometimes you get snug fits and sometimes you don't. The silicone just creates a basic seal and firmly holds the pieces in place.

That's all... Nothing more... Nothing less.

Do not use it as any type of glue for doing pvc plumbing.

 

[pdiehm]

I did some trouble shooting. I actually took the portion below the union and swapped it with the open channel. Same issue.

so, I'm optimistic that I would just need to re-build the bottom portion of the piping. So in that sense, I'm ok. My biggest fear was essentially starting over with removing the box and such.