Silent and Failsafe Overflow System

adamwheel said:
Thanks for the replies. I'll consider raising new aquarium a little and increasing pvc to 1". Sounds like the best solution.
Click to expand...

The extra height will give you more flow in the siphon, too. (the extra energy from the longer drop is greater than the friction loss from longer plumbing, assuming you don't have a huge horizontal run in there)
 
uncleof6 said:
The valve setting on the siphon determines the running water level in the overflow box. The problem with your system, is you are not getting any pressure head above the siphon, therefore the system is not starting up right.

Whether raising the open channel a 1/2" or so, will cure the problem or not is an unknown. Whether bushing the siphon down to 1" would solve the problem is an unknown. Those are the two cures for this issue, provided the rest of the system is "right."

I have tried pretty hard to find a video of a BA, as designed, firing up the proper way, with little luck so far. I have found a BA variant that does fire up properly. I think this system would fire up properly with the OC and Siphon at the same level, but I cannot be sure, I don't have my hands on the system. I do know that the OC would not need to be quite as high as it is.

This is what your system is not doing:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tWMzmiU3wDY

And that is what yours needs it to do. (Watch the head height over the siphon.)

You want the waterfall into the overflow to be ~1 - 1.5". It is not rocket science, so you don't need a micrometer. But in that area. So I would raise all three standpipes up in the overflow. Your overflow box is going to be a problem no matter water, due to the size and the teeth, at just about any flow rate above where it is now. The drain system as it is right now, will handle 3000gph+. The overflow at that flow rate will make you want to shoot it.

So what precisely should be done to fix your system depends on the flow rate. So let's start with the tank size, and multiply that by 10 to arrive at a target flow rate. (Very reasonable.) We can go from there.
Click to expand...

Thanks uncle, i have since figured everything out and made the proper changes, thanks for all the input.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=buMDhpsJwac&feature=youtu.be

And since you cant see the box very well..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mp1KPfkkkK8&feature=youtu.be
 
adova said:
Is the ball valve on the siphon drain? If so, look up a few posts - same thing happened to me. Turned out to be bubbles getting caught in the drain line.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the reply,
Yes the ball value is on the full Siphon line. I have the OS .5" above the FS If I close/block the OS completely the noise goes away but the adjustment of the ball value is very touchy. It seems like if I raise the OS a little higher the problem will go away. All of the plumbing is 1.5" with the external weir being 18x6.5"x6. Should I have used 1" instead? The internal weir is 32"x1.5"x5". I also have two holes from the internal to the external that are 2" each.


72 gallon bow front, 20 gallon sump with ehiem 5000 pump, reef Octopus 150sss
 
Ironwood said:
Thanks for the reply,
Yes the ball value is on the full Siphon line. I have the OS .5" above the FS If I close/block the OS completely the noise goes away but the adjustment of the ball value is very touchy. It seems like if I raise the OS a little higher the problem will go away. All of the plumbing is 1.5" with the external weir being 18x6.5"x6. Should I have used 1" instead? The internal weir is 32"x1.5"x5". I also have two holes from the internal to the external that are 2" each.


72 gallon bow front, 20 gallon sump with ehiem 5000 pump, reef Octopus 150sss
Click to expand...

Well, if the noise is gone when the OC is closed, then I would deduct that the noise is actually from the OC and not the ball valve of the siphon. If you have too much water running through the OC, it will be noisy. The trick is to get the level to the point where the OC flow is barely there...

You may also want to investigate replacing the ball valve on the siphon with a gate valve to get more control over the adjustment.
 
I apologize in advance for asking the same tired question. I just want to make sure these holes are in the proper place. I am planning on one inch bulkheads.
001_zpsnp7yzcle.jpg~original
 
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Hello, I think I have come up with my plan for my new build but was hoping to run it by you guys for reassurance.

My tank will be 80x36x24 (~300 gallons) peninsula style with a full length 36" coast to coast external toothless overflow. I am planning (4) 1.5" holes be drilled into the bottom of the external overflow 2 3/8" apart (edge to edge). 3 of the holes will be for the bean system and the 4th will be for my return.

I will be using my Fluval SP4 as the return pump. I have a couple options here. I am planning on having the drain side of my sump directly under the overflow so that the 3 overflow pipes go straight down, which means the return side of the sump will be a 60" horizontal run. The total head height will be about 6'. I could either keep the return pump in the sump that way or run it external and have the return pump directly under the overflow also, so I can eliminate the additional 60" horizontal run and a couple 90s.

The reason I feel that is an important decision to make is because according to fluval at 5'9" head height the pump gives 1281gph, 7'2" 1235, 9'5" 805. Should I stick with 1.5" bulkheads or would make it as designed with 1" bulkheads?

The pump has 1" input/output connectors but I plan on running the output at 1.5" to keep all the plumbing from/to the overflow box the same and also for less friction loss. If I run the pump external would I need to up the input side to 1.5" also or could that stay at 1"?

Do you see any huge mistakes or have any suggestions for me? Thanks!
 
@805reef:

I have about the same setup, but in a smaller footprint. A few comments:

I think you will want to make it so that the overflow (siphon) drains directly into the sump without bends. This means that you will have more of a challenge attempting to set up a return pump going directly back up through the overflow. Additionally, you are not going to want to pull the return from the same side as the drain discharge.

In my case, I just set up a single internal pump to return through a 1.5". The single pump is a Jebao DC 12000, but it is not putting out quite the GPH that i would like. If I had a chance to re-do it and had the extra overflow space, I would have preferred 2 separate return lines (at least 2 bulkheads for returns) so that I could add a second pump and increase flow if desired. Also good as a backup in case of a single pump failure.

But, I would stick with the 1.5" across the board...

Shawn
 
dirtycontour said:
I apologize in advance for asking the same tired question. I just want to make sure these holes are in the proper place. I am planning on one inch bulkheads.
Click to expand...

The spacing is fine in terms of minimum clearances. Can't say whether it is appropriate for the overflow or not without seeing the box and the rest of the design.
 
805reef said:
Hello, I think I have come up with my plan for my new build but was hoping to run it by you guys for reassurance.

My tank will be 80x36x24 (~300 gallons) peninsula style with a full length 36" coast to coast external toothless overflow. I am planning (4) 1.5" holes be drilled into the bottom of the external overflow 2 3/8" apart (edge to edge). 3 of the holes will be for the bean system and the 4th will be for my return.

I will be using my Fluval SP4 as the return pump. I have a couple options here. I am planning on having the drain side of my sump directly under the overflow so that the 3 overflow pipes go straight down, which means the return side of the sump will be a 60" horizontal run. The total head height will be about 6'. I could either keep the return pump in the sump that way or run it external and have the return pump directly under the overflow also, so I can eliminate the additional 60" horizontal run and a couple 90s.

The reason I feel that is an important decision to make is because according to fluval at 5'9" head height the pump gives 1281gph, 7'2" 1235, 9'5" 805. Should I stick with 1.5" bulkheads or would make it as designed with 1" bulkheads?

The pump has 1" input/output connectors but I plan on running the output at 1.5" to keep all the plumbing from/to the overflow box the same and also for less friction loss. If I run the pump external would I need to up the input side to 1.5" also or could that stay at 1"?

Do you see any huge mistakes or have any suggestions for me? Thanks!
Click to expand...

1' Bulkheads. As it looks to me, you won't break 1200gph regardless. No point in using bulkheads that can flow 3000gph. 1" bulkheads will get you to 2000gph anyway, with a little over a 3' drop.

That said, with a 300 gallon tank, you are going after a elephant with a pea shooter for a pump, and you should be targeting 3000gph, rather than playing around at 1200gph. In that case you would want to use 1.5" bulkheads.

IF you insist on using the pea shooter, you will HAVE to increase the inlet pipe size to 1.5" if you are running external, and running a 1.5" return line. 2" inlet would be better.
 
dirtycontour said:
I apologize in advance for asking the same tired question. I just want to make sure these holes are in the proper place. I am planning on one inch bulkheads.
001_zpsnp7yzcle.jpg~original
Click to expand...

I have a dimensioned drawing showing these dimensions, posted within the last ten pages. Apology accepted, and you are welcome to ask, :blown: but really folks, if you don't read this thread, you are not going to have the information you need to implement this drain system! The question I have, is you know this is a tried same old question asked every other day, why did you not find the answer? This question gets asked an average of three times a week. :headwallblue::)

The dimension down from your reference point is 2 3/4" (minimally.) Where did you find the 1.75"? Or did you just use the minimum dims from glass edges?
 
Last edited by a moderator:
rickztahone said:
cool vid. Do you have a build thread and did you cut the back of the tank for the slots? I was under the impression that the air tubing should be above the emergency line.
Click to expand...

It absolutely needs to be higher than the inlet to the dry emergency, because the head height required to really start the system is around the top of the dry emergency. If the air inlet is lower, you get the start issues that are so often discussed: bubbles from standpipes, OC taking too much flow, etc, to varying degrees. When this system was designed, the position of this inlet was just below the trim lip inside the tank. Now, with an external box on a rimmed tank, that is ~1" above the top of the overflow box. That isn't going to work is it. Folks want to cram this stuff in a little external box, and then have a hard time figuring out why it does not work right.
 
uncleof6 said:
I have a dimensioned drawing showing these dimensions, posted within the last ten pages. Apology accepted, and you are welcome to ask, :blown: but really folks, if you don't read this thread, you are not going to have the information you need to implement this drain system! The question I have, is you know this is a tried same old question asked every other day, why did you not find the answer? This question gets asked an average of three times a week. :headwallblue::)

The dimension down from your reference point is 2 3/4" (minimally.) Where did you find the 1.75"? Or did you just use the minimum dims from glass edges?
Click to expand...
I was being lazy...
I saved a rendering and a couple quotes, I believe they are yours, to my desktop a while back. I just wanted to be sure.
 
This is a massive thread and I promise I tried searching (but given the keywords just about every post comes up) as I'm sure this has been asked before, but I need some confirmation/reassurance that my hole location will be perfect for this internal/external overflow.

My concern is the depth of the 6 1.5" bulkhead holes at 4.5" from the top of the tank. Should I bring them up higher? If the minimum safe distance is 2x hole size would it be more effective to have them higher at say 3"? Have I overlooked something? Does it matter given the stand pipe will dictate how much water makes it to the sump when the pump is off?

Please excuse my illustration as I know there are some errors.

AQUARIUM%20OVERFLOW_zpsgggqqc9a.jpg
 
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