Silent and Failsafe Overflow System

[Camarofish]

Hey guys. I recently purchased a 210 reef ready tank which uses the old durso overflow. I will have my sump in the basement directly below the tank. This would be ~11' drop. I'd like to convert this to the AnimalBean overflow. It is the typical 2 overflows on the back...each with 2 - 1" bulk heads. Does anyone think that I can just convert this to the AnimalBean system? Run one 1" hole as the return, the hole next to it as the primary, then the other 2 - 1" holes as the secondary and emergency? I'm thinking 1" return and all 3 drains @ 1.25". The pump in the basement is a ReeFlo Dart/Snapper.

Edit: I think I just answered my own question...the second overflow would make this a non option. Time to drill baby, drill.

 

[Djbeasley05]

Hey guys. I recently purchased a 210 reef ready tank which uses the old durso overflow. I will have my sump in the basement directly below the tank. This would be ~11' drop. I'd like to convert this to the AnimalBean overflow. It is the typical 2 overflows on the back...each with 2 - 1" bulk heads. Does anyone think that I can just convert this to the AnimalBean system? Run one 1" hole as the return, the hole next to it as the primary, then the other 2 - 1" holes as the secondary and emergency? I'm thinking 1" return and all 3 drains @ 1.25". The pump in the basement is a ReeFlo Dart/Snapper.

There would be no benefit of 1.25" drains if the bulkheads are 1". Other than that, you can setup a bean animal system as long as you have 3 drains.


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[Sisterlimonpot]

Hey guys. I recently purchased a 210 reef ready tank which uses the old durso overflow. I will have my sump in the basement directly below the tank. This would be ~11' drop. I'd like to convert this to the AnimalBean overflow. It is the typical 2 overflows on the back...each with 2 - 1" bulk heads. Does anyone think that I can just convert this to the AnimalBean system? Run one 1" hole as the return, the hole next to it as the primary, then the other 2 - 1" holes as the secondary and emergency? I'm thinking 1" return and all 3 drains @ 1.25". The pump in the basement is a ReeFlo Dart/Snapper.

Edit: I think I just answered my own question...the second overflow would make this a non option. Time to drill baby, drill.

If the overflows are on opposite corners and separate from each other, they will operate independently. So whichever overflow has the full siphon with the gate valve will have higher water levels and the other side will just drain naturally.

So you're stuck with having to drill or you can research the Herbie overflow system. It only requires 2 drains and is just as quiet. The only down side is that it uses 2 drains, the second drain takes on the task of the open and emergency.

Perhaps having 2 sets of herbie will be a lot of redundancy (which is why the bean animal is so popular), not sure how hard it would be to dial in 2 full siphons that share the load, but it will prevent you fro drilling.

 

[Camarofish]

There would be no benefit of 1.25" drains if the bulkheads are 1". Other than that, you can setup a bean animal system as long as you have 3 drains.


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Yes, that is why I am leaning towards plugging the original holes and then doing it the right way, by drilling new/larger holes. I'd rather be on the overkill side than the "I wish I'd..."

So, I'm thinking doing a coast-to-coast with the BeanAnimal overflow. Do you think that 1.25 spaflex is okay or should I opt for the 1.5"? I would imagine that a 1" return is adequate?

 

[Camarofish]

If the overflows are on opposite corners and separate from each other, they will operate independently. So whichever overflow has the full siphon with the gate valve will have higher water levels and the other side will just drain naturally.

So you're stuck with having to drill or you can research the Herbie overflow system. It only requires 2 drains and is just as quiet. The only down side is that it uses 2 drains, the second drain takes on the task of the open and emergency.

Perhaps having 2 sets of herbie will be a lot of redundancy (which is why the bean animal is so popular), not sure how hard it would be to dial in 2 full siphons that share the load, but it will prevent you fro drilling.

Appreciate the response. The reason I want to go AnimalBean is that my wife will probably divorce me if I have another flood. haha I too thought about the 2 herbie thing, but seems like a PITA to get them dialed in.

 

[Sisterlimonpot]

Appreciate the response. The reason I want to go AnimalBean is that my wife will probably divorce me if I have another flood. haha I too thought about the 2 herbie thing, but seems like a PITA to get them dialed in.

You're probably right, Without setting one up I wouldn't know for sure. It could be as easy as setting both "full siphons" and forgetting about it or it can be constant adjustments.

Although I think that herbie design will offer great protection from a flood, you just wont have that failsafe of the failsafe.

But if it were me, I would drill the tank and be part of the bean animal club!!! hehe.

 

[Camarofish]

So, attached is my preliminary plan. Not sure if I'm still going to flow with 1.25" or go with 1.5". At this point I bought all of the 1.25" Spaflex, but can return it for bigger. This is not to scale and I'm no designer, but if anyone sees any flaws, constructive criticism is welcome.

 

[Djbeasley05]

So, attached is my preliminary plan. Not sure if I'm still going to flow with 1.25" or go with 1.5". At this point I bought all of the 1.25" Spaflex, but can return it for bigger. This is not to scale and I'm no designer, but if anyone sees any flaws, constructive criticism is welcome.

Looks good! Why do you have a gate and ball valve on the full siphon line?


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[Camarofish]

Looks good! Why do you have a gate and ball valve on the full siphon line?


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Thank you! The reason for both is so I can fine tune it from above and if I need to disconnect in the basement for maintenance, etc. I can do it from that level. Let me know if that doesn't make sense...save me some $

 

[Djbeasley05]

Thank you! The reason for both is so I can fine tune it from above and if I need to disconnect in the basement for maintenance, etc. I can do it from that level. Let me know if that doesn't make sense...save me some $

You can accomplish the same thing by just shutting off your return pump for maintenance. Once the siphon breaks you won't have any water coming out and you can isconnect at the Union without having to retune your drain


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[Camarofish]

You can accomplish the same thing by just shutting off your return pump for maintenance. Once the siphon breaks you won't have any water coming out and you can isconnect at the Union without having to retune your drain


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Sweet! Thanks for the advice!

 

[Hal]

What is more important to the flow of a siphon? The weight of the water below the bulkhead? Or the weight of the water above the bulkhead?

My overflow is only about 6" deep, but I will have about a 3' fall. How do I determine my flow rate of the siphon?

Using your parlance, it's actually the sum of the weight of the water in the pipe, both above and below the bulkhead. Said another way, it's the length of the pipe that is fully full of water plus any water height above that.

Because gravity accelerates the water at 32 ft per second squared, the longer the water is in the pipe, the faster it will flow. And because the pipe is in siphon mode, the falling water pulls on the water above it, sucking water into the siphon (assuming you have enough water to fully supply the siphon), and accelerating the new water as the earlier water accelerates. So if the first water in the siphon hits the sump at 2000 gph, for example, ALL the water in the siphon tube is moving at 2000 gph at the very instant that it enters the siphon (because the earlier water pulls it down).

In contrast, in non-siphon mode, the first water down the drain does not "pull" on the later water, so each water drop starts out at 32 feet per second squared and gradually accelerates to its final flowrate.

Another way to think of it is that you have car #1 (non-siphon) doing 1/4 mile drag race. It starts from a standing position and accelerates normally from 0 to 200 mph by the time it hits the finish. In contrast car #2 (siphon) is instantly accelerated to 200 mph the second the light turns green and runs the entire race at 200 mph. Which car wins the race?

 

[rlinusc]

Hello all, I have a bean animal set up for the first time- the actual drain is pretty quiet, but there is noise from the water coming in from the bulkhead to the overflow box- I did set up the level such that the water level is about in the middle of the bulkhead and the open channel is set pretty muc( at the same spot. Is this noise just what I should expect?


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[rlinusc]

On second thought, 8 think this is much louder than it should be, not sure if I did something er8ng on the open channel, if I have the water level (adjusting the siphon) cover the bulkheads, it is still loud and the open channel has a ton of bubbles. Maybe my siphon hasn't purged the air? I tested hav8ng the airline going in the water and the open channel did go into siphon mode.

To be clear my siphon is only about 4 inches below the mid point of the open channel, so maybe it just won't purge the air? I made sure to have both the open and siphon to not let out too far below the surface of the sump. I don't see the siphon vortexing and I don't have any horizontal runs just 45s.

Is there a post in troubleshooting I am missing?


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[Djbeasley05]

On second thought, 8 think this is much louder than it should be, not sure if I did something er8ng on the open channel, if I have the water level (adjusting the siphon) cover the bulkheads, it is still loud and the open channel has a ton of bubbles. Maybe my siphon hasn't purged the air? I tested hav8ng the airline going in the water and the open channel did go into siphon mode.

To be clear my siphon is only about 4 inches below the mid point of the open channel, so maybe it just won't purge the air? I made sure to have both the open and siphon to not let out too far below the surface of the sump. I don't see the siphon vortexing and I don't have any horizontal runs just 45s.

Is there a post in troubleshooting I am missing?


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It sounds like your open channel is taking too much water. Try lowering the water level in the box without breaking the full siphon.


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[DougSupreme]

Open the valve on your siphon a bit. That will allow more water to flow down the siphon and less down the open channel

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[Djbeasley05]

Open the valve on your siphon a bit. That will allow more water to flow down the siphon and less down the open channel

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Implied from my post


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[rlinusc]

Will try that- how do you tell if the siphon air has been purged? There aren't any bubbles coming from there


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[rlinusc]

So I tried that, got even louder, what confuses me is that beananimal describes the system as self-tuning, and that on start the water should reach the emergency stand pipe before the siphon purges air and then goes into full siphon at which point the water level will go down to the right level on its own (as the full siphon starts moving the water much faster). I dint think this is what is happening with my system, or I am not letting it run down the emergency pipe long enough to purge the air... how long should I expect it to go for?


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[Djbeasley05]

So I tried that, got even louder, what confuses me is that beananimal describes the system as self-tuning, and that on start the water should reach the emergency stand pipe before the siphon purges air and then goes into full siphon at which point the water level will go down to the right level on its own (as the full siphon starts moving the water much faster). I dint think this is what is happening with my system, or I am not letting it run down the emergency pipe long enough to purge the air... how long should I expect it to go for?


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After you initially tune it, you won't need to retune in and it will self start. The two things I had to play with to get the full siphon was play with the valve and how far the pipe went under the water line in the sump. If it goes in the water further than 1/2" it might not be able to purge the air.


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