Silent and Failsafe Overflow System

[Mr Coffee]

I was unable to find a bushing that would fit on the outside of the bulk head slipping directly on the 1.5 " san T. is there such a piece. I looked on all of the PVC websites that you posted bean and did not find a piece like that. it has to be very thin walled to go from outside thread of bulkhead directly to the 1.5" slip. I will post pictures ASAP. Sorry about that.

 

[uncleof6]

I was unable to find a bushing that would fit on the outside of the bulk head slipping directly on the 1.5 " san T. is there such a piece. I looked on all of the PVC websites that you posted bean and did not find a piece like that. it has to be very thin walled to go from outside thread of bulkhead directly to the 1.5" slip. I will post pictures ASAP. Sorry about that.

Maybe I am confused, but why would this not work?

You are not supposed to use the outside threads of the bulkhead to attach the plumbing, the outside threads are for the bulkhead nut only. There is usually a 1" socket in the outside of the bulkhead. It accepts 1" pvc pipe, which would then fit in the inside of the adapter above, then the adapter will fit inside the sanitary tee.

Silicone will not adequately seal your plumbing.

Jim

 

[BeanAnimal]

As Uncle pointed out, the threads on the outside of the bulkhead are only intended to be used with the bulkhead lock nut, they do not match any standard pipe size or thread.

The INSIDE diameter of the bulkhead is the most limiting factor of the design. We are upsizing the vertical standpipe in the open channel section to allow a greater cross-sectional area for the water to drop through. This will help to eliminate noise by allowing the water to free fall or cascade down the sides of the pipe instead of tumbling down a narrow pipe and cuasing gurgling. The larger area of the TEE or ELBOW at the top of the standpipe serves the same purpose. You could certainly use a 1" TEE. I prefer to use the San-Tee due to the smooth transition from horizontal to vertical. You can't easily find 1" San-Tees.

With regard to the siphon standpipe. Again the limiting factor to flow is the smallest diameter in the pipe, be it the bulkhead, or the partially closed valve. That said, I chose to use the larger vertical standpipe (and TEE) for a few reasons. 1) A larger pipe has less friction. If the entire standpipe was the SAME I.D. as the bulkhead, then the ENTIRE standpipe would be the limiting factor in the flow rate. I prefered to take the standpipe out of the proverbial equation and allow the limiting (controlling) factor to be the adjustment VALVE. 2) A larger pipe has much less chance of allowing organic buildup to interact with the adjustment of the system. 3) For easthetic reasons, I kept all three standpipes the same.

Hope that helps

 

[Volcano1]

Trying to come up with a way to support the plumbing for the external overfow box to the stand.Looked through the thread, din't see an ideal solution. Any help would be great.
Some pics of the stand.

Any help would be great.

Thanks,

Todd

 

[BeanAnimal]

With a setup that large, you may want to use some stainless unistrut with stainless clamps. Screw the unistrut directly to the stand frame.

I used wooden blocking with half moon cutouts for the pipe and VELCRO hot glued to it as the straps.

Savko also sells some nifty clamps:
http://savko.com/PartList.asp?pgid=5&ptid=21

AquaticEco has their own version as well
http://www.aquaticeco.com/subcategories/843/Pipe-Hangers/hanger/0

And lastly... if you look on google, you will find all sorts of nifty plumbing and pipe stays and hangers (if none of the above options suit you).

 

[Volcano1]

Saw some of the above hangers.
I need to come of the stand a few inches to be parrellell with the pipes coming from the over flow. If I use flex, I may be able to come back far enough, if it's rigid, it wont line up.
Considered having the shop that did the stand , bend me some plate with a hole in, it far enough out to match up with the overflow.
I figured a union above the hole shouldn't allow any vertical movement and the hole would stop horizontal.
I'll search some more and see if something pre-made will work.
Thanks for the suggestions.

 

[BeanAnimal]

Instead of having them build a plate to run the pipe through, purchase the hangars and have them fabricate a mounting bracket for them.

Or you could just use wood like I did.

 

[tmerrick]

Beananimal, can you look at my question when you get a moment please?

 

[Volcano1]

That may be easier.

 

[robojet]

Bean, I'm working on my design. I'll try to improve the graph, but just learning Google Sketchup.

I decided to go with an external overflow. All holes are 1 1/2", 1 1/2" apart, 2 1/2" from edge of glass (with the exception of the bottom of the overflow box, where they are 1 3/4" from the long side). The external box would be to flush with the top/side edges.

I'm not sure if the details of the weir are important, except that it will run the entire back and will have teeth (will still have plenty of linear flow (I believe that is the correct terminology). I have it at 5" tall right now, but could probably be 4 1/2".

So, does this appear to have any problems? Things I was wondering about:
- do the holes in the back of the tank provide enough flow to the external overflow? I'm assuming they do as they will be bigger than the holes with the bulkheads in them leaving the external overflow
- is the dimensions of the external overflow appropriate implementing this thread's overflow?
- is there any issue having all of the holes on the back of the tank to one side?

I'm sure there are other things I'm not thinking of... advice is welcomed from all.

EDIT: looks like I messed up the hole size... intended it to be for 1.5" bulkheads... so need to redo. But will go smaller if that is a reasonable thing to do

 

[Daimyo68]

tmerrick

I have the same setup, 2 corner overflows in my 135g Oceanic (long project in the works...slowly).

I'm definitely gonna use Beans setup for that tank.

I was thinking about, if it seems possible, turning the corner overflows into a closed loop, and using Beans setup as intended. (Drilling the 3 Holes in the back glass, and putting in a C2C in between the 2 overflow boxes).

Basically, the corner overflows work as normal, but instead of going to the sump, both drains would go to the CL pump, and then back up through the overflow return as usual, and plumbed inside and down along the back glass using Modular Loc Line on the ends, to redirect flow once the rock is in.

Was also thinking about putting an OM Squirt in the return for the CL.

I'll wait to see if BeanAnimal responds.

 

[uncleof6]

Bean, I'm working on my design. I'll try to improve the graph, but just learning Google Sketchup.

I decided to go with an external overflow. All holes are 1 1/2", 1 1/2" apart, 2 1/2" from edge of glass (with the exception of the bottom of the overflow box, where they are 1 3/4" from the long side). The external box would be to flush with the top/side edges.

I'm not sure if the details of the weir are important, except that it will run the entire back and will have teeth (will still have plenty of linear flow (I believe that is the correct terminology). I have it at 5" tall right now, but could probably be 4 1/2".

So, does this appear to have any problems? Things I was wondering about:
- do the holes in the back of the tank provide enough flow to the external overflow? I'm assuming they do as they will be bigger than the holes with the bulkheads in them leaving the external overflow
- is the dimensions of the external overflow appropriate implementing this thread's overflow?
- is there any issue having all of the holes on the back of the tank to one side?

I'm sure there are other things I'm not thinking of... advice is welcomed from all.

EDIT: looks like I messed up the hole size... intended it to be for 1.5" bulkheads... so need to redo. But will go smaller if that is a reasonable thing to do

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1733011

Jim

 

[robojet]

Jim, thanks for reposting your link. I can follow that, but I plan on modifying slightly to have teeth on my internal weir, and putting 3 holes to one side of the tank (I am working with limitations for the space I'm placing the tank).

So, I still have the question, does anyone see a problem placing the holes to one side while having a coast to coast internal overflow. I don't think there's a problem, but thought I would ask.

And, what is the needed width of the external overflow (My length would be 14.25, your height was 8")

thanks

 

[uncleof6]

Jim, thanks for reposting your link. I can follow that, but I plan on modifying slightly to have teeth on my internal weir, and putting 3 holes to one side of the tank (I am working with limitations for the space I'm placing the tank).

So, I still have the question, does anyone see a problem placing the holes to one side while having a coast to coast internal overflow. I don't think there's a problem, but thought I would ask.

And, what is the needed width of the external overflow (My length would be 14.25, your height was 8")

thanks

As far as flow rate goes, where the holes in the back of the tank are, or where the standpipes are located, does not make a difference.

For working in the external I would say 5" minimum width. As far as the overall design of the system, I would want the external box to mirror the internal, i.e. the same length. Have the holes spread out across the back of the tank. The standpipes could be anywhere along the back, at one end what have you.

Jim

 

[robojet]

As far as flow rate goes, where the holes in the back of the tank are, or where the standpipes are located, does not make a difference.

For working in the external I would say 5" minimum width. As far as the overall design of the system, I would want the external box to mirror the internal, i.e. the same length. Have the holes spread out across the back of the tank. The standpipes could be anywhere along the back, at one end what have you.

Jim

If I it best practice to mirror the internal weir and external overflow, I will need to reduce the internal weir. My rough estimates are that the external overflow will need to be 14.25" (I will look back at other posts to see what others have done)... therefore, my Internal weir will be 14.25". As I mentioned before, I have limitations in the space I am using for placement of my aquarium. I cannot have an external overflow that runs the entire back of the aquarium.

Just wondering if there was a technical reason for mirroring the internal weir and external overflow?

THANKS!

 

[uncleof6]

If I it best practice to mirror the internal weir and external overflow, I will need to reduce the internal weir. My rough estimates are that the external overflow will need to be 14.25" (I will look back at other posts to see what others have done)... therefore, my Internal weir will be 14.25". As I mentioned before, I have limitations in the space I am using for placement of my aquarium. I cannot have an external overflow that runs the entire back of the aquarium.

Just wondering if there was a technical reason for mirroring the internal weir and external overflow?

THANKS!

At this time, I can only point to efficiency of water movement from the internal to the external. The system is not thoroughly tested yet. I am not aware of anyone that has this up and running. The project I am working on is on hold. (a 5' tank,) so it is kinda theoretical at this point. Off hand, I do not see a problem with a short external at one end, flow is going to be what is going to be. Teeth on the weir, are going to reduce the efficiency of the system as well. It is my preference to have the full length external, at this time, with multiple holes spread across the back. I would certainly not reduce the length of the internal to match the shorter external though.

Jim

 

[robojet]

thanks jim. so, it sounds like I should continue with my plan to have an internal weir across the entire length, and my short external.

I understand the issue with the teeth... but I can't get myself to go without. I'm trying to keep my fish from taking the waterslide, or in this case, getting stuck in the external... probably far worse than the waterslide - that would be difficult to get them out of. I will still have 24" of linear flow. For now, I'm OK with this - I reserve the right to change my mind and complain about it later though :rollface:.

I will rework my drawing and resubmit here for review. I really appreciate the help! I want to make sure I get the specs correct, as I will be having someone build the aquarium with the weir and overflow box. As soon as I can get this done... I will order :dance:. I understand it takes 30 days for the tank to delivered.

 

[madkeenreefer]

The open channel standpipe may not act like a true open channel, depending on the slope and diameter. Use the largest diameter pipe you can for the open channel. A 9' drop is going to create a fairly strong siphon... what flow rates are you looking for?

I will be using a 4500gph sequence barracuda for my return, I figure that I will loose around 2500-3000 gph with the head loss and plumbing restrictions
so around 1500 will be close to what the overflows will see. quiet a bit for a 150gl tank but its what im looking for.

 

[BeanAnimal]

As far as flow rate goes, where the holes in the back of the tank are, or where the standpipes are located, does not make a difference.

For working in the external I would say 5" minimum width. As far as the overall design of the system, I would want the external box to mirror the internal, i.e. the same length. Have the holes spread out across the back of the tank. The standpipes could be anywhere along the back, at one end what have you.

Jim

I don't see a need to have the external box the width of the tank if all of the holes feeding it from the internal box are on one side

 

[BeanAnimal]

Ahh... I see I posted too soon, you already responded with the same information.

madkeen... skip the teeth and fashion the internal box to have a (dark) cover that creates a small gap along the front That will also keep algea from growing in it.