Skimmer on a timer

[karimwassef]

My method works. Resorting to personal attacks shows some serious lack of confidence in your approach.

Make sure not to listen to anyone other than the sound of your own voice.

 

[karimwassef]

<a href="http://s1062.photobucket.com/user/karimwassef/media/12FC3480-F6AD-4B01-874E-79C0C9919307_zpsqan5ta0u.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/12FC3480-F6AD-4B01-874E-79C0C9919307_zpsqan5ta0u.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo 12FC3480-F6AD-4B01-874E-79C0C9919307_zpsqan5ta0u.jpg"/></a>

<a href="http://s1062.photobucket.com/user/karimwassef/media/EDB03D10-AD54-4C32-A0C4-D4D0316090D8_zpsnq6suodb.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/EDB03D10-AD54-4C32-A0C4-D4D0316090D8_zpsnq6suodb.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo EDB03D10-AD54-4C32-A0C4-D4D0316090D8_zpsnq6suodb.jpg"/></a>

That's about 3 months worth.

By the way, I make mistakes and I travel, so bad things do happen... I lost salinity for a week, and most actually survived...

My reef is ten months old, and still demonstrating resilience and growth.

 

[karimwassef]

Frags March 22nd
<a href="http://s1062.photobucket.com/user/karimwassef/media/24A421FD-4DC2-4EF3-B15E-F2A4C44F0EE0_zps8eedmdhf.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/24A421FD-4DC2-4EF3-B15E-F2A4C44F0EE0_zps8eedmdhf.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo 24A421FD-4DC2-4EF3-B15E-F2A4C44F0EE0_zps8eedmdhf.jpg"/></a>

Two months later
<a href="http://s1062.photobucket.com/user/karimwassef/media/603FDBCC-BB74-48E5-874B-1CD042E77003_zpsadz8orni.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/603FDBCC-BB74-48E5-874B-1CD042E77003_zpsadz8orni.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo 603FDBCC-BB74-48E5-874B-1CD042E77003_zpsadz8orni.jpg"/></a>

 

[karimwassef]

April 16th
<a href="http://s1062.photobucket.com/user/karimwassef/media/6F26DF8C-BA14-4E00-9DF4-16C47ECAC11E_zpsdsevux8h.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/6F26DF8C-BA14-4E00-9DF4-16C47ECAC11E_zpsdsevux8h.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo 6F26DF8C-BA14-4E00-9DF4-16C47ECAC11E_zpsdsevux8h.jpg"/></a>

May 20th (a month later)
<a href="http://s1062.photobucket.com/user/karimwassef/media/DDF16323-92AA-48A2-BA33-F73A267276A4_zpsexgypfmj.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/DDF16323-92AA-48A2-BA33-F73A267276A4_zpsexgypfmj.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo DDF16323-92AA-48A2-BA33-F73A267276A4_zpsexgypfmj.jpg"/></a>

 

[karimwassef]

I can't find the video showing the experiment with intermittent skimming, but I'll keep looking for it.

 

[karimwassef]

http://youtu.be/4iSW_GPP9ac

http://www.reddit.com/r/ReefTank/comments/2lj86h/1_year_experiment_of_four_identical_tanks_with/

I didn't make it up. Just took some digging.

To the OP - this hobby is full of those who will put everything they don't use down. Do the research and experiment yourself.

I ran a 24/7 skimmer from the 90s until 2014... It works and it works well. For me, I found better results with a part time skimmer.

 

[tmz]

It's not personal; it's just bad information and poor quality.

 

[davocean]

This hobby and site also has no shortage of people that ignore facts and pass on bad info, but I don't normally see that coming from RC staff members or long term hobbiests.

 

[bertoni]

[flamealert]

Okay, let's keep this conversation civil. The tone seems headed a bit downhill.

 

[tmz]

Lest folks be misled . There is no data in the links. More or less a pitch for buying mud as far as I can tell. Hardly worth echoing.IMO . Even so I didn't see any mention of turning off the waer flow to the skimming timeframes.

These are a few random shots of my corals that have grown from small frags with years of 24/7 skimming:

http://s229.photobucket.com/user/fishandfootball58/media/tanks%202012/SDC10203.jpg.html?sort=3&o=40

http://s229.photobucket.com/user/fi... 13/SDC10185_zpsa55075cf.jpg.html?sort=3&o=23

BTW. I also run tanks with light and no skimming for corals with higher heterotrophic needs like capnella ,discoma and and xenia ;sps don't do nearly as well in those tanks,ime.

Shutting off the skimmer feed pump for subtrantial periods of time reduces aeration and gas exchange and leaves relatively stagnant water in it. Using a smaller skimmer or simply valving off the air flow for periods of time is a safer course if lyou ae set on reducing skimming.

 

[karimwassef]

I run 18hrs on / 6hrs off. I don't see that as an exceptionally long period of off time.

My pH is controlled with Kalk addition on an Apex - set to a constant 8.3, so it never dips. My Alkalinity ranges from 8 to 9.5dKH and Calcium from 420 to 500. I do manual A/B additions.

Given the surface area (96" x 34") and the surface waves, I don't see any signs of a loss of oxygenation or an increase in CO2.

I don't use mud. I do use a DSB and refugium with Chaeto in my sump. This is constantly pod rich.

I also have an actuated surge that moves a lot of water during the day.

I've experimented with turning my skimmer off at different times (day vs. night, dawn vs. dusk, etc...) and I've also run constant on 24/7 and skimmerless.

I've found that turning it off at dusk (3 hours end of day and 3 hours at night) resulted in the greatest polyp extension at night. That's not the only measure of health, but my growth is visible in my previous posts.

 

[karimwassef]

another variable may be the size of my skimmer and the flow through it
It's a DIY 12ft recirculating beckett injected style with 2000gph through it.

<a href="http://s1062.photobucket.com/user/karimwassef/media/Mobile%20Uploads/BBC3548B-3CF2-44DF-9B5C-65B388EAFB33_zpshpfnzb51.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/Mobile%20Uploads/BBC3548B-3CF2-44DF-9B5C-65B388EAFB33_zpshpfnzb51.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo BBC3548B-3CF2-44DF-9B5C-65B388EAFB33_zpshpfnzb51.jpg"/></a>

The skimmer cup is up at the garage ceiling

<a href="http://s1062.photobucket.com/user/karimwassef/media/150E3439-8215-4489-A1B9-3D625F319C26_zpske5ttiv1.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1062.photobucket.com/albums/t496/karimwassef/150E3439-8215-4489-A1B9-3D625F319C26_zpske5ttiv1.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo 150E3439-8215-4489-A1B9-3D625F319C26_zpske5ttiv1.jpg"/></a>

 

[bertoni]

This hobby is very complicated, and we have a very limited amount of hard data to guide us. This section of Reef Central is supposed to be science-oriented, so we try to keep a fairly strict line on quality of data. I agree that the data here in favor of part-time skimming is very limited, and anecdotal in nature.

Personally, my skimmers ran 23 hours a day. I shut them off for 1 hour after feeding phytoplankton, so that the skimmer didn't remove as much of the algae I was adding. Less skimming might leave more micro plankton in the water column, which could be good. The down side is that aeration is reduce, and the skimming "safety net" is gone. I don't know what the relative tradeoffs are.

 

[karimwassef]

So. The video I found shows 4 tanks being run with the same controls but with a few variables changed... for a year. How many of us have done that?

I agree it's not scientific, but that's a lot of effort for a hobbyist. He should have measured his parameters, logged them, etc... But I wouldn't dismiss it outright either. He could be making it all up, but wow- that's a lot of effort to put people on the wrong track.

For aeration, are we saying that skimmerless tanks run low on oxygenation and so can't be successful? Doesn't that depend on the exposed surface area and wave motion too?

I've personally never had a long term skimmerless tank - the longest was a week while fixing a leak in mine.

 

[bertoni]

Lots of people run skimmer-less tanks successfully, so it's very clear that skimmers are optional. That said, they do offer advantages, especially for tanks near the higher end of the bio-load range and in cases of emergencies, like some mass spawning events. I ran a skimmer-less tank for a few months, at least, although my experiences with it were negative.

 

[karimwassef]

Did you use an alternative export method like chaeto or more frequent water changes?

 

[bertoni]

I did try more water changes and ran carbon, but one of my soft corals wouldn't open until I added a skimmer. I turned the skimmer off for a few days a couple more times, to try to test the effect. It closed up every time. My best guess is that another soft coral was producing allelopathic toxins.

 

[tmz]

Lots of people run skimmer-less tanks successfully, so it's very clear that skimmers are optional. That said, they do offer advantages, especially for tanks near the higher end of the bio-load range and in cases of emergencies, like some mass spawning events. I ran a skimmer-less tank for a few months, at least, although my experiences with it were negative.

I agree skimmers are optional and some seem to have some success without them. For some corals less to no skimming actually seems to be a benefit; for many others particulary sps it's not the case ,IME .
I don't think turning one off for an hour is a problem in terms of stagnation or lost aeration. I do that when I feed small particle foods or amino acids on rare occasions When I medicate or otherwise need to stop skimming for a longer period , like with interceptor for 12 hours , I'll leave the skimmer flowing to avoid stagnant water but disconnect or valve of the air intake .No bubbles > no skimmming . I'll add a few airstones to make up some of the lost aeration.

I agree plankton is likely very helpful as a food source but see plenty of it at night even when skimming . The organic carbon I add may be helping the food web. Many corals can be target fed during the day too.

 

[tmz]

For those using calcium hydroxide(klak). It's a source of calcium and alkalinity. It uses CO2 to make CO3 thus continuously reducing CO2 levels in the tank as they equilibrate with the surrounding air . More CO2 equals lower pH. Turning a dsoing device on and off as suggested in another post to respond to preset tank pH level puts constancy in alk and calcium levels behind maintaining pH. A diurnal swing in pH much less conerning than bouncing alk around for sps. It's a cart before the horse scenario. On off dosing can also contribute to equipment failure and clogging.

 

[karimwassef]

Since I run a recirculating Beckett, I can cut the circulating pump and get no bubbles. The main flow would continue.

My skimmer's intake and outlet are both in my sump - different stages. But I'm moving the return to the DT directly since my cup is 5 feet over the DT water level.

I'll try cutting the recirculating pump only but keep my flow pump on. I've been looking for a way to increase return flow, so this should work very well.