what makes gigs and mag nems so hard to keep?

[salty160]

what makes these the "hard expert nems"

i heard they ship poorly and therefore most specimens are in poor condition when they arrive at our lfs's.

but dont you have a good chance of getting a good specimen from Live aquaria?

are they hard even if you find a good specimen, what extra care do they need diffrent from most nems.

 

[82ndengineer]

Read the sticky about cipro treatments for them. Top of the forum.

 

[Kyle10181]

Honestly, Most gig's and mag's that are left untreated will ultimately meet their demise due to shipping stress, infections and disease. This is ultimately what makes these species so hard to keep, there is however treatment regiems as stated in the sticky with regards to Ciprofloxacin that will increase your odds of keeping these species.

Often cases, the Gig's will inflate and deflate for long periods of time untill they no longer inflate and the mouth will simply begin to gape and expell its organs, eventually leading to the death of the anemone, if left untreated. Again, this is why it is crucial to follow the Ciprofloxacin protocol when purchasing these beautiful nem's to not only ensure your purchase of the anemone will live a full and happy life in captivity where you will be able to enjoy its beauty in the home aquarium

 

[salty160]

should you only treat a nem if it looks sick? wouldnt treating it stress it out worse?

but if you treat the nem b4 u put it in your main display are they just as easy to keep as the avg anenome.

 

[D-Nak]

should you only treat a nem if it looks sick? wouldnt treating it stress it out worse?

but if you treat the nem b4 u put it in your main display are they just as easy to keep as the avg anenome.

Some disagree, but I believe that all freshly imported mags and gigs (and possibly even haddoni) should be treated immediately upon arrival at home. Prior to receiving the anemone, plans should be made to have the QT tank ready and Cipro on hand.

I was lucky and was able to purchase both an established mag and gig from other reefers, and both did extremely well. Once they are established, they do very well. They seem to be able to handle many stresses that could kill coral, and don't have pests like red bugs or flat worms.

The gig I lost was a fresh import. This is prior to Cipro. The problem is that they die from the inside out. In other words, once they show external symptoms, it's often too late. This is the reason I recommend immediate QT and a full course (7 days) of Cipro. Another BIG THANK YOU to Minh for developing the treatment. I have successfully treated a cut gig, and am working with a haddoni now (thread to come).

 

[OrionN]

There is at least one importer (in London, England) who have success with treating all the Gigantea
Anemones with antibiotic in an elaborate quarantine system. I think he had great success with this. I would have the treatment tank and med ready before get either a Magnification or Gigantea.
For sure if the anemone need treatment then the earlier the better.

 

[OrionN]

should you only treat a nem if it looks sick? wouldnt treating it stress it out worse?

but if you treat the nem b4 u put it in your main display are they just as easy to keep as the avg anenome.

Treatment tank should be set up such that you can keep the anemone for several weeks if needed. QT should not stress the anemone. In fact, reading about some of the treatment thread, the anemone can response very quickly, sometime with in 1 day. Many show mark improvement right away.

 

[ca1ore]

I was lucky and was able to purchase both an established mag and gig from other reefers, and both did extremely well. Once they are established, they do very well.

Seems increasingly clear that it is indeed shipping stress that does these nems in, and I fully agree that once acclimated the can be very hardy. While I also agree that acquiring one from another reefer can be beneficial, my experience recently suggests that even a short trip can be problematic. I bought a healthy one out of a local tank, and with only a 30 minute drive. Yet, this mag deteriorated in my tank, and after a week it was pretty clear that without intervention, I'd lose it. A 5 day (probably should have done 7 tho) course of Cipro did the trick.

 

[salty160]

very helpfull guys thanks, now i heard gigs love warmer temps are mags like this also? the reason im asking is because im moving to the valley and im wondering if i should get a chiller.

 

[BonsaiNut]

The two species are very different - are found in different locations in the wild - and in my opinion suffer from different problems in closed systems.

S. gigantea is a shallow water anemone that is rarely if ever found deeper than 6'. It is the highest light requiring anemone in my experience, and seems particularly sensitive to lack of light. It also thrives in strong, alternating current. It is very sensitive to bacterial infection and even healthy-looking individuals can have a difficult time adapting to a new system, and can be sensitive to changes in environment. If they make it in your system for 3 months without shrinking / bleaching, they can be very hardy and survive for years. There is no record of them successfully reproducing in captivity - and they cannot be "fragged" without killing the individual.

H. magnifica is a much larger, further offshore, and deeper water anemone than S. gigantea. It is a prolific asexual reproducer and is often found in colonies of numerous clones - in some cases numbering more than a dozen (and sometimes over a hundred) individuals. In my opinion, if you can get a large healthy specimen in, it is MUCH hardier than S. gigantea. Unfortunately, due to its size, its need for high intensity lighting, and desire for moderate water flow, I find that the majority of tanks set up to house these creatures are inadequate. You probably need a minimum 200 gallon main tank with a coral bommie in order to even ATTEMPT to keep these creatures or you risk them wandering the tank, getting sucked into intakes, etc. They tend to not do well in the classic "rock wall" setup, or any lighting less intense than metal halides (that I am aware of). Once settled in a proper tank, they are very hardy, will tend to grow quite large, and asexual reproduction in captivity is relatively common.

 

[OrionN]

Regarding S. gigantea

.....There is no record of them successfully reproducing in captivity - and they cannot be "fragged" without killing the individual.

......

I hope to change that. They sexually reproduced by internal fertilization. The female swallow the sperms, fertilization take place inside the female and fully formed babies released. I hpe I have at least one male and one female of the three I have. Wish me luck everybody.

Regarding fragging, I think one should not frag these anemones but it seem that there are a few reefers here got "fragged Gigantea" from vendor. Most died but at least two reefers have keep these anemones alive and improving, D-Nak and taylor t.

 

[worm5406]

Regarding S. gigantea


I hope to change that. They sexually reproduced by internal fertilization. The female swallow the sperms, fertilization take place inside the female and fully formed babies released. I hope I have at least one male and one female of the three I have. Wish me luck everybody.

I would love to help and see this or even do it also... argh...

 

[ct_vol]

I disagree in that all specimen should be treated upon obtaining. I have 3 Mags and 1 Gig. None have been treated with Cipro and all are thriving. That being said, should I wish to obtain another, I would make certain I had Cipro on hand if necessary. I just wouldn't treat automatically.

 

[D-Nak]

I disagree in that all specimen should be treated upon obtaining. I have 3 Mags and 1 Gig. None have been treated with Cipro and all are thriving. That being said, should I wish to obtain another, I would make certain I had Cipro on hand if necessary. I just wouldn't treat automatically.

First, you're right. Apologies for the blanket statement. I guess my point is that most gigs and mags that are freshly imported are sick, and though their outward appearance looks good, unless quickly treated, they will surely die. Cipro has been the only treatment that we know of with a high enough success rating to actually deem it as a cure for shipping ailments.

Second, consider yourself EXTREMELY lucky. I've been keeping a mental tally of mags and gigs that have appeared on the boards, and I'd say that prior to Cipro, 90%+ didn't make it past the first month. Once people started using Cipro, this number has declined DRAMATICALLY.

About a year ago, gigs started appearing that were severely bleached, but were making it through the first month without problems and without any treatment. I think you were one of the people who picked up a bleached gig.

Because of this, I started to think that there was a correlation with the dead zoax and the death of the non-bleached gigs. It could be that what was killing the zoax (some sort of bacterial infection) was also killing the nem. Or, it could be that the dead zoax was indirectly killing the nem (possibly decaying within the nem? Who knows.). The scenario was always the same: initially, they looked decent -- good enough to actually purchase, but they started to quickly decline in health at about week three. I saw this with both gigs and mags. However, the bleached gigs weren't affected (I don't remember bleached mags). I hypothesized that since the gigs made it through the bleaching process, they didn't have enough zoax to get infected to then kill the nem.

Anyway, this is the reason I recommended all gigs and mags get treated -- because I no longer see the bleached ones coming in. But again, you're right -- all imported gigs and mags do not need to be treated. The trick is to be able to tell the signs of a sick gig or mag at the onset. If treated too late, the nem won't make it.

 

[OrionN]

I think early treatment is every important. Those of us who are familiar with these anemones and can tell early signs of illness can afford to wait and see if if our animal is sick and treat them then.
Some of us who are new and not too sure of the sign, may want to empirically treated their anemone. I don't think the treatment regiment is stressful or harmful to the anemone. Early treatment literally is the different between life and death for these animals.
In all case, it would be wise for reefer to have treatment tank, heater, PH, small light and medication on hand when we attempt on hand when we are attempt to get these newly import anemones.
In all case, the cost of these equipments and medicine for me is less then 1/2 the cost of the animal itself.

 

[ct_vol]

Sometimes its easy to take for granted the knowledge of what a healthy Gig/Mag look like. It does seem early treatment is best, and agree that most that are inexperienced may not recognize the early symptoms of needed treatment. I guess that would answer why they are both considered advanced/expert only stock.

 

[SNAKEMANVET]

I treated my mag as soon as I got it home it looked great,but we know how fast they can go down hill.My thinking is why risk it getting to far gone before treatment to be affective.

 

[xtlosx]

I disagree in that all specimen should be treated upon obtaining. I have 3 Mags and 1 Gig. None have been treated with Cipro and all are thriving. That being said, should I wish to obtain another, I would make certain I had Cipro on hand if necessary. I just wouldn't treat automatically.

+1 on this.. I did not treat either of my Gigs and both are thriving. Whether my green is 100% Gig is another topic. I QT'd the green before putting it in with the more established purple but never treated with cipro. I was ready to..... Absolutely agree anyone buying one of those anemones needs to have cipro on hand, a hospital tank, and be READY for a potentially long experience that might end up with death of the animal. It's a labour of love.

 

[ct_vol]

I treated my mag as soon as I got it home it looked great,but we know how fast they can go down hill.My thinking is why risk it getting to far gone before treatment to be affective.

I am not arguing for procrastination of treatment. Upon initial symptoms of deflating or excessive mouth gaping, I believe you should treat with antibiotics... But I don't think all specimen should be treated regardless of condition. If an anemone shows all sounds of being healthy, I don't think it should be treated, just to be safe.

I worry about the bacteria developing a resistance. Say you have a healthy Gig that you treat with Cipro. You then get greedy and add a second Gig that is unhealthy. You treat it, but unsuccessfully as is sometimes is the case. The first Gig then falls ill, but by continually treating, the effectiveness of the Cipro on the bacteria goes down. You then lose both...

This is one of the reasons doctors cut back on the Penicillin prescriptions. Not because it wasn't effective, but because they wanted to keep it that way.