Aquarist007
New member
UNbelievable truly unbelievable---really truly unbelievable
I prefer the aqua putty instead of the gel anyways.
Difficult and Special Care Species List
- Thread starter Peter Eichler
- Start date
UNbelievable truly unbelievable---really truly unbelievable
I prefer the aqua putty instead of the gel anyways.
This thread is now stickied in the Newbie Must Read post.
Aquarist007
New member
thanks Tom--great idea---even more reasons we are glad you are back
Sorry, didn't really do that. I was just referring to working at the back and counting out the cash draws.
zemuron114
In Memoriam
pinning or needling fish is actually quite fine for the fish if you do it right. The signs of it done improperly are usually evident very quick (ie: day 1) In most cases, it is better for the fish. Imagine hanging on a line in the middle of the ocean surrounded by very LARGE fish that want to eat you while you are trapped in a bucket? From talking to collectors who use to collect deep water fish they all say pinning the fish is less stressful and they loss less fish that way... Do i agree? 50/50. I think some situations will call for it, but then there are divers who pin everything even if caught at 40 feet (it takes 30 minutes tops to deco a fish from 40 feet) and go "pin crazy". some fish are to delicate to pin (gobies, helfrichi, ventralis anthias etc)
Most fish can handle it well.
Potters angels are a tricky fish. they are most definitely not as hardy as a flame angel, but if you get them acclimated and collected properly (not roughed up - even pinned is fine) they can live long term.
Most fish die in home aquaria to the hobbyist messing something up as Paul B suggested. I agree there are a lot of fish that should be left alone (some leopards, coral eaters, anampses etc)
On the idol note - Hawaiian idols do extremely well in comparison to indo/pacific. I very rarely lose any, and they always eat (aggressively!)
Most fish can handle it well.
Potters angels are a tricky fish. they are most definitely not as hardy as a flame angel, but if you get them acclimated and collected properly (not roughed up - even pinned is fine) they can live long term.
Most fish die in home aquaria to the hobbyist messing something up as Paul B suggested. I agree there are a lot of fish that should be left alone (some leopards, coral eaters, anampses etc)
On the idol note - Hawaiian idols do extremely well in comparison to indo/pacific. I very rarely lose any, and they always eat (aggressively!)
Aquarist007
New member
I am sorry but I don't have a clue of what this post is about or why it has been posted in this thread
zemuron114
In Memoriam
^^ there was a short discussion on decompression and using the pinning method to do it. and how it related to why some fish dont fare well in captivity
cortez marine
In Memoriam
Putting holes thru a fishes organs and pulling the needle back out by lotsa rough divers in a hurry to get home causes dozens of different issues. Carefully focused hypodermic needles or fishes just popped in t he gut with anything sharp and handy?
Secondary bacterial infections rot a lot of fishes out from the inside.
Steve
Secondary bacterial infections rot a lot of fishes out from the inside.
Steve
Aquarist007
New member
Engineer gobies--you might want to think twice:
PaulB's thread:
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=13746936#post13746936
PaulB's thread:
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=13746936#post13746936
rampantmarine
New member
I read about this "needling" in Scott W. Michaels "Reef Fishes" books I just received, and it didn't sit well with me then, and I can't say it makes me feel very good reading it described here. Is this practiced by MAC collectors? How widespread is it and is it only deep water fish that this is done to? I am not a diver so I don't have the reference point for depths.
cortez marine
In Memoriam
MAC collectors?
Whats a MAC collector?
Steve
Whats a MAC collector?
Steve
rampantmarine
New member
I hope I didn't get it incorrect but in the copperbanded primer one of the posters refers to MAC Certified Collectors, the link is here.
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1492696
My understanding from some other web reading or book reading, I can't recall exactly where I got the notion from, is that these organizations adhere to a code of practices that are supposed to increase the chances of survival and sustainability of the collections. The big one was no drug use, but I really don't know much more about it, other then what I just wrote. I have ran across it being referred to more than a few times. I hope someone else can chime in with a better description.
rampantmarine
New member
cortez marine
In Memoriam
They had an idea but couldn't train collectors as they themselves had no idea how to do the physical part.
They had a problem closing the gap between the "written concept" and the "field mplementation" of it in reality.
Afetr 10 years and 10 million dollars, they kinda fell apart.
Today all that remains is money in the bank and a few guys to watch it and search for ways to justify it and get paid while going thru the motions of doing so.
The failure taught many collectors that net collecting "doesn't work" and sent them back to cyanide fishing actually setting back the cause of reform!
But..........the office born concept was kind of ok..
Steve
They had a problem closing the gap between the "written concept" and the "field mplementation" of it in reality.
Afetr 10 years and 10 million dollars, they kinda fell apart.
Today all that remains is money in the bank and a few guys to watch it and search for ways to justify it and get paid while going thru the motions of doing so.
The failure taught many collectors that net collecting "doesn't work" and sent them back to cyanide fishing actually setting back the cause of reform!
But..........the office born concept was kind of ok..
Steve
Aquarist007
New member
IMO this thread is really getting off track from the original posters aim. Perhaps "as a suggestion" the above topics might be continued in a more appropriate forms such as Responsible reef keeping or advanced topics.
Definetly not trying to offend anyone here but this thread is now a sticky because it was a very useful resource thread
Definetly not trying to offend anyone here but this thread is now a sticky because it was a very useful resource thread
Aquarist007
New member
I have been advised by a number of reefers that this is not really a fish to avoid but a fish to note this caution with:
"Engineer gobies are a very nice, long lived reef safe fish but like any other fish they should not be kept with fish small enough to fit in their mouth. They are not very predatory but they usually eat in the dark and will sample anything small enough. They eat anything including flakes. I keep very small gobies and butterflies and lost about 5 of them. I am not sure if the engineer ate all of them but I saw it grab a gobi and drag it into a hole, the gobi was much too large for the engineer to swallow and I really don't know how he planned to eat her but he held her long enough to kill her. Any fish at least as wide as an engineer gobi will be fine with them."
posted by PaulB
'The very same problem people report when the keep giant groupers.
Paul B
Premium Member
Yes I guess it is common sence that many of the fish we buy are juviniles and some of them get large (like Waterkeeper's head)
But even the ones that are kind of small may get twice as large and start to eat your fish. Engineers are usually bought as cute skinny looking innocous slow moving fish. But they get much larger and due to their hiding habits, we forget about them. I had a cusk eel for 18 years which I only saw at night with a flashlight. It had grown to about 6" and after many years, I started to find smaller gobies disappearing and never found a body. I wondered why I never had to feed him.
For some reason people buy clown groupers, another cute little fish which grows about two feet long.
I once bought a little remora about 2" long. In a few months it had grown to about 2' long and I had to give it to the New York aquarium where I think they fed it sharks.
Remember, almost all fish eat fish. It is how they make their living and the cost of the meal does not seem to bother most fish.
There are no Mc Donalds in the sea
But even the ones that are kind of small may get twice as large and start to eat your fish. Engineers are usually bought as cute skinny looking innocous slow moving fish. But they get much larger and due to their hiding habits, we forget about them. I had a cusk eel for 18 years which I only saw at night with a flashlight. It had grown to about 6" and after many years, I started to find smaller gobies disappearing and never found a body. I wondered why I never had to feed him.
For some reason people buy clown groupers, another cute little fish which grows about two feet long.
I once bought a little remora about 2" long. In a few months it had grown to about 2' long and I had to give it to the New York aquarium where I think they fed it sharks.
Remember, almost all fish eat fish. It is how they make their living and the cost of the meal does not seem to bother most fish.
There are no Mc Donalds in the sea
tahiriqbal
Sialkot
thanks
thanks
Hi peter,
Just been reading about your lovely informative message. I can't help to ask for your kind premission if I could post this valuable thread to a british forum. I hope you would allow me to post this under your name and reference to your work will clearly be stated.
Look forward to hear from you very shortly.
Thanks.
thanks
Hi peter,
Just been reading about your lovely informative message. I can't help to ask for your kind premission if I could post this valuable thread to a british forum. I hope you would allow me to post this under your name and reference to your work will clearly be stated.
Look forward to hear from you very shortly.
Thanks.
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